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1 Jan 2008, 15:48 (Ref:2097604) | #1 | |
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Group A Ford Sierra RS500
Hello,
Happy New Year to all of you. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we don't have yet a thread about this racing model, as we have for the BMW 635CSi and the Rover SD1. So, let's start. Firts one question: how many of those cars were raced in fact. here in Portugal, at least 4 maybe five cars did run in our Touring Car Championship, the first one in late 1988 or early 1989. Any coments, photos, etc...? Regards Luis Mateus |
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1 Jan 2008, 18:35 (Ref:2097676) | #2 | ||
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I'll kick off with the BTCC Cosworth/RS500 entries, year-by-year: 1987
1988- things really kick off, with at least a dozen RS500s appearing:
Last edited by KA; 1 Jan 2008 at 18:38. |
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1 Jan 2008, 20:09 (Ref:2097699) | #3 | ||
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1989: the 'big' class of the BTCC was almost exclusively RS500, the only interloper being Trident Motorsport's Maserati Biturbo...
Andy Rouse- 4 cars- one ICS-backed for Rouse, the second FAI Automotive-backed for Sean Walker, plus the Team Labatt's pair for Harvey and Bristow Graham Goode Racing- 2 Listerine-sponsored cars for Goode and Mike Newman Trakstar- one full-season entry for Robb Gravett, and a second appeared in a couple of races for Mike Smith Graham Hathaway Racing- one ex-Trakstar car for Hathaway Brodie-Brittain Racing- one car for Dave Brodie Partservice Exeter- one car for former Rover privateer Dennis Leech Crypton Engineering- ran an Eggenberger-prepared car at Brands Hatch for Italian Amato Ferrari Stuart Donnan- one car for Donnan appeared at a couple of races There may well have been others- I don't have complete results to hand for these seasons. To round off the story, in 1991 the 2-litre regulations took over, although the RS500s were still allowed with heavily restricted turbo boost- enough to make them uncompetitive, so no-one really bothered. The only car to appear regularly was Dennis Leech's car in some early-season races until it was damaged in a crash. I think Trakstar also ran an RS500 in qualifying at one mid-season meeting, but didn't start the race. I can't recall the driver, it may have been Sean Walker or Mike Smith. Anyone feeling brave enough to tackle the ETCC/WTCC entries? One problem is that I don't beleive there was a single 'source' of RS500s- unlike the 635s or M3s which were largely built from BMW Motorsport shells and kits, I think a variety of different teams (Rouse, Eggenberger, Wolf, Graham Goode etc) produced RS500s, both for their own use and for customers. That might make it difficult to have a go at putting together a definitive chassis list.... Last edited by KA; 1 Jan 2008 at 20:17. |
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2 Jan 2008, 02:40 (Ref:2097852) | #4 | |||
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DJR Sierra's did race in Europe.
Dick Johnson took his car to Silverstone in 1988 for the TT at Silverstone to share with John Bowe, qualifying on pole infront of the Eggenberger cars and the Rouse car. Led the race until the first pitstop where they fell behind, and were catching back up when more trouble intervened at the second pitstop. They eventually finished 21st. It was this that led to the claim DJR had the worlds fastest Sierra's, along with setting pole for Bathurst in 1988. The Eggenberger-prepared Moffat Sierra did set fastest lap in the Top 10 at Bathurst in 1988 (didn't count for the grid that year) with Klaus Neidzweidz, and did so again in 1990. It was a real shame there weren't very many DJR vs Eggenberger vs Rouse battles. Trackstar bought two (or was it just the one??) cars from DJR for 1989 for Robb Gravett & Mike Smith. For 1990 they built up a car of their own (one of the ex-DJR cars presumebly went to Hathaway in 1990?) Quote:
Andy Middlehurst did alright in Sierra in 1991, running #99. |
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2 Jan 2008, 07:32 (Ref:2097891) | #5 | |||
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It's a real pity about the problems they had (wasn't it something overheating related?) because I think we may have seen an even bigger upset to the predicted formbook than Rouse's eventual win. As I remember, Johnson did do a fair amount of damage to the lap record though Quote:
I'm pretty sure Leech ran his white 'Partservice' RS500 in 'restricted' form- I've got the 1991 BTCC media guide handbook somewhere which clearly refers to this. He shunted the car pretty heavily early in the season and I don't think he returned until midway through the following season with an uncompetitive normally-aspirated Cosworth, now in his traditional black and dayglo orange colourscheme. One point to notice, looking at photos I've got of the Middlehurst car, is that the normally-aspirated versions ran the 'basic' Cosworth aero kit, not the RS500 version Last edited by KA; 2 Jan 2008 at 07:40. |
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2 Jan 2008, 08:08 (Ref:2097899) | #6 | ||
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2 Jan 2008, 11:12 (Ref:2097971) | #7 | |||
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2 Jan 2008, 16:25 (Ref:2098109) | #8 | |||
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There were mutterings locally as well that in 1989 Johnson & Bowe would return to drive together in the second Trackstar Sierra at the Donnington 1-hour race, though again that didn't eventuate. Tomas Mezera ran the odd round in 1990 in the Labatts Sierra's (Donnington partnering Lawrence Bristow, then a run at Brands wasn't it), how did he secure that drive? |
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1 Jan 2008, 21:45 (Ref:2097737) | #9 | |
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Few would disagree that these were the nirvana of touring cars... God, those things still give me goosebumps 20 years on.
Just look at this and tell me you're unaffected ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHXzrNyMc6I |
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2 Jan 2008, 01:19 (Ref:2097833) | #10 | ||
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They were also the dominant car in Australian touring car racing 1987-1990 as well – although didn’t have it all their own way by any means, and raced properly until the end of 1992 although again some were later used in our 2L series without turbos.
I don’t have a list of those that raced to hand, but as a rough guide there would be at least 10 in regular competition throughout the period, with the normal changeover of cars and appearances by less-frequent competitors, particularly at the Bathurst 1000. Touching on KA’s point of the teams constructing their own cars, I would like to pose the question of whether any Australian-constructed RS500’s (eg Dick Johnson Racing) competed in Europe or the UK, and if so how did they go? I have read a fairly general statement that the DJR Sierras were the fastest in the world but of course they were developed for longer than in Europe. |
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4 Jan 2008, 02:48 (Ref:2099008) | #11 | ||
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Thanks for the feedback on the DJR cars
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4 Jan 2008, 07:34 (Ref:2099090) | #12 | ||
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Here's a link to the TT results:
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...lverstone.html |
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4 Jan 2008, 21:40 (Ref:2099517) | #13 | |
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The Portuguese RS500's
So, to beguin with the portuguese RS500, they debuted in Portugal in early 1988 to the Portuguese Touring Car Championship.
Two cars were bought from England to Traffic Racing (Ni Amorim) and Gianfranco (Carlos Rodrigues). There was a third car for António Rodrigues (Carlos' brother) but all the media stated that it was his previous year RS Cosworth car converted to RS500. Could this be true or reasonable? The rear spoiler was in fact of RS500 type, but it was possible to convert a RS into a RS500? If so, then there were two true RS500 and a "converted RS" in this first year. To cut the story short, Ni Amorim almost won the championship which went to Pequepe's BMW M3, Carlos Rodrigues finaly won championship races, and his brother had so much problems with the "converted car", that he switched to his older Volvo 240 Turbo to finish the championship. Some fotos of the cars The António Rodrigues car followed by the Traffic one http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?i...adoconduj8.jpg http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?i...rampadahb5.jpg The Carlos Rodrigues car http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?i...iladocoyh9.jpg (all came from this site) http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=263800&page=8 1989 The Traffic car was bought by Promogrupo (which was Amorim's sponsor in his 1988 Group N car) and was used by Amorim to win the championship. The Rodrigues brothers went together in Gianfranco Team using their previous year cars. But Carlos was punished with a 6 months ban after punshing another racer in the first race of the championship, and the "converted car" was set asside as the problems continue, and António used instead the true RS500 until his brother's return. Anothe car appeared: a Luigi RS500 driven by Christian Melville, without much sucess, and latter that year Robert Giannone also drove a RS500 but I could not find yet if is the "converted" loaned to him by Gianfranco or a new car. This means that we have three of four true RS500, and a "converted? car". I wish we could trace their chassis numbers... more to come Regards Luis Mateus Last edited by Brickyard; 4 Jan 2008 at 21:44. |
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4 Jan 2008, 23:15 (Ref:2099587) | #14 | ||
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7 Jan 2008, 09:06 (Ref:2101066) | #15 | ||
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I would say that all the existing RS race cars were converted to RS500 spec on August 1 1987 when the homologation came through. I know that the 4 racing in Australia were.
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9 Jan 2008, 13:29 (Ref:2102572) | #16 | ||
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I don't recall any XR4Ti's racing in Australia after mid-1987 (before the RS500 homologation was official)
In 1986 David Oxton did a few rounds of the ATCC in the ex-Rouse 1985-BTCC car, before it was sold to Mark Petch for Bathurst, and last i saw was raced by Andrew Miedecke/Hall in the 1987 January Wellington 500. In early 1987 Neville Crichton purchased a 1986 Eggenberger XR4Ti, and drove it with Steve Soper in the January 1987 Wellington 500. He (Crichton) ran it in the opening round of the 1987 ATCC at Calder, while Denny Hulme took it over for a few mid-season rounds, and that was it. The only other Sierra runners in 1987 were the DJR and OXO teams, both running 2 Cosworths in ATCC, but upgrading to the RS500-spec for the 1987 Sandown 500 and beyond. In 1988 there was an explosion of Sierra RS500 runners locally (no other Sierra variants ran as far as i remember) 2x DJR cars for Johnson & Bowe (a 3rd at Bathurst) 2x Oxo/Miedecke cars for Andrew Miedecke & Andrew Bagnall 1x Freeport Motorsport/Frank Gardner 'overlokked' car for Tony Longhurst (became Benson & Hedges for Sandown 500) 1x Caltex car for Colin Bond (2nd car for Bathurst) 1x ANZ/Eggenberger Sierra for Allan Moffat (ATCC rd4 at Wanneroo onwards) 1x Wolf car for Robbie Francevic (just the ATCC round at Winton, then Bathurst) 1x Murray Carter entry for the enduro's (ran a DR30 Skyline in the ATCC) trying to recall if there were any other Sierra runners in 1988..... |
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12 Jan 2008, 18:28 (Ref:2104848) | #17 | |
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Oh for sure it is, but assuming Moreno exited Chapel onto the Hangar straight correctly, there's not a cat in hell's chance of a Group A RS500 getting anywhere near him by the time he turned into Stowe. The two are leagues apart in performance on a circuit.
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12 Jan 2008, 19:31 (Ref:2104872) | #18 | ||
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Thinking about it, and I'd have to dig out the race programme, or issue of Autosport in which it was told to be sure of this, but I have a suspicion the gist of the original story wasn't that the RS500 passed Moreno on the straight, but that Moreno came up behind the Cossie after exiting Chapel only to find he didn't have enough straight-line speed to pass it flat-out on Hangar straight, and so had to wait until it braked for Stowe.... |
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13 Jan 2008, 21:44 (Ref:2105527) | #19 | |||
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"Double Kidney Guv'nah?" "No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!" |
12 Jan 2008, 19:39 (Ref:2104876) | #20 | ||
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all these RS500 storys and history, my mate martin has owned a few of these and i have had the pleasure to have sat in the listerine goode rs ,sopers eggenburger texaco and harveys labatts cars on the same day .if only we could have raced them ,still theres always the lawrence bristow labatts RS that he still has ,will have to twist his arm.....
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13 Jan 2008, 12:46 (Ref:2105209) | #21 | |
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Hi bdwoody,
with ref to your comment "if only we could have raced them", I raced the Robb Gravett Trakstar car in club racing in '96 and '97, it was a great mix of adrenaline, excitement and fear, I still have the car which I have restored to it's Dick Johnson Shell livery and occasionally take out on track for a "fix" Andy |
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13 Jan 2008, 13:03 (Ref:2105217) | #22 | ||
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we met at rockingham last year if you recall on ford day.
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13 Jan 2008, 20:48 (Ref:2105481) | #23 | ||
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Here's Japan 1988 and links to where I've found the results.
http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/res...&pre_year=2008 http://ms.bridgestone.co.jp/database...?cid=20&sid=55 The Alta Vista Babel fish is helpful regarding translations as is old Autosport reports! The races: Round 1 – 1988.01.17 – Suzuka Round 2 – 1988.03.20 – Mine Round 3 – 1988.06.05 – Sendai Round 4 – 1988.08.21 – Tsukuba Round 5 – 1988.09.18 – Sugo Round 6 – 1988.11.13 – Fuji – a round of the new FIA Asian-Pacific Touring Car Championship as well #1 (#10 at round 1, #33 at round 6) Trampio RS500 (rounds 1-6) Naoki Nagasaka for the entire season. Hisashi Yokoyama carries on from late ’87, but is replaced by Tomohiko Tsutsumi from round four and onwards. Kazuo Shimizu is added to the line-up for the Intertec 500 final. R1 – 2nd o/a, 2nd in class R2 – DNF R3 – Victory R4 – DNF R5 – 3rd o/v, 3rd in class R6 – DNF #3 (#13 at round 1, #30 at round 6) Dunlop RS500 (unknown team or owner) (rounds 3-6) Eje Elgh and Maurizio Sandro Sala driving. R3 – DNF R4 – 2nd o/a, 2nd in class R5 – Victory R6 – 13th o/a, 3rd in class #6 Andrew Miedecke RS500 (round 6 only) Andrew Miedecke and Graeme Crosby chasing points for the FIA Asian-Pasific Touring Car title. R6 – DNF #11 (#22 at round 6) unknown team (Kazuo Shimizu?) RS500 (rounds 3-6) Hisashi Yokoyama doing all the races for the team. Partnered by Kazuo Shimizu for rounds 3-5, while Klaus Niedzwiedz replaced him for the final round at Fuji. R3 – DNF R4 – Victory R5 – 2nd o/a, 2nd in class R6 – Victory #? DL Shimizu RS500 (round 2 only) Suguru Akaike and unknown co-driver. This might be the #11 entry, but I have no way of telling. R2 – DNF A second a DNF and then victories in the final four rounds for the RS500 in Japan in 1988 from three more or less full time teams. Jesper |
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14 Jan 2008, 06:45 (Ref:2105699) | #24 | ||
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I recall footage one year on a big pitfire in the All-Japan Touring Car Championship involving one of the RS500s. Any idea what car/year it was?
It's interesting to look at how many RS500s there were being used, especially in the BTCC, but there were very few teams/drivers to really get the hang of them properly to be competitive. In the BTCC there was only really Andy Rouse Engineering (encompassing the Labatts cars & the Kaliber/ICS cars) & Trackstar who were consistently competitive, although Jerry Mahony did get a win to open the 1988 BTCC In the ATCC you had DJR the only regular Sierra winners from 1988-1992. Longhurst's team scored a few wins, and Colin Bond got a pair of wins in the 1990 ATCC (thanks to his Toyo tyres it must be said), while most other runners locally were inconsistent when up the front. Elsewhere you had Eggenberger & Wolf doing the bulk of the Sierra fornt-running. Thoughts? |
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14 Jan 2008, 07:47 (Ref:2105710) | #25 | ||
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Tags |
andrew miedecke, andy rouse, atcc, btcc, colin bond, dick johnson, dtm, eggenberger, ford sierra rs500, graham goode racing, group a, peter brock, trakstar, wtcc |
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