Powerplants

[Fireball]

Who is using what powerplants & who has the best?

DJR, DJR Power
SBR & 888 - SBR Power
FPR - FPR
what others?

[BlueBlood]

Team kiwi and Glenfords SBR
HRT, HSVT, GRM, BOC, dalberto all walky power
PWR - PWR
Perkins- perkins
britek - britek??
FRSR when they arrive FPR
Supercheap PMM
Tasman- Tasman

On the blue side, DJR, SBR and FPR all seem to have the goods

[Pro Racer]

Walkinshaw - HRT, HSV, BJR, RNR, GRM, PWR?.

SBRE - SBR, 888, TKR, PCR.

FPR - FPR, FRSR.

in house - Tasman, Perkins, PMM, DJR, Britek.

beat me to it BlueBlood.

[Senna05]

No mention of J Bright's opinions on a production engine?

6L pushrods and 5.4 DOHC's? Anyone?

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Senna05

No mention of J Bright's opinions on a production engine?

6L pushrods and 5.4 DOHC's? Anyone?

And what happens when the 6L engines get more exotic materials? Or will the materials be restricted?

Anyway, I remember the transition from Group C to group A... the power levels went down by 120bhp, weight increased by 200kg and tyre width was almost halved. Two years later, the Group A cars were lapping quicker around every circuit.

I love the notion of slotting in production engines but the Ford donks will grenade themselves.

[v8man]

GRM are still using their own powerplants that have been freshened up by Walky at the moment, GR said on the telecast that they don't get the full blown Walky units until later in the year

[Pro Racer]

but you could still class them under the Walky banner as he has played with them and they are getting full Walky gear at some point.

i think Brighty has a valid point with the 6 litre and it not working as hard as the 5 litre meaning you could get abit longer out of them which would cut costs a little it would also make them more relevent to the road cars as they are either at 6 litre and and 5.4 litre so good enough to make the step i reckon.

[Racenut7]

Walkinshaw - HRT, HSV, BJR, RNR, GRM, PWR.

SBRE - SBR, 888, TKR, PCR, Britek.

FPR - FPR, FRSR.

in house - Tasman, Perkins, PMM, DJR.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Racenut7

Walkinshaw - HRT, HSV, BJR, RNR, GRM, PWR.

SBRE - SBR, 888, TKR, PCR, Britek.

FPR - FPR, FRSR.

in house - Tasman, Perkins, PMM, DJR.

Britek do NOT use SBRE powerplants

If the noise is right, PWR are still using their PWR'd ex-Perkins engines.

Try this one:
WP - Toll HRT, Autobarn HSVDT, Opes Prime HSVDT, WOW, BOC, GRM, RNR (9 cars)
NES - PMM (2 cars)
Perkins - Perkins (2 cars)
Tasman - Tasman (2 cars)
PWR - PWR (1 car)............. total 16 red cars

SBRE - SBR, 888, TKR, PCR (6 cars)
DJR - DJR (2 cars)
FPR - FPR, FRSR (if they show) (3 cars)
Britek - Britek (2 cars)............. total 13 blue cars

And Mr Walden's 30th car would use an engine if it existed.

[Senna05]

My old man was an engine reconditioner for many years, working for Repco before and after the Pacific Dunlop buyout, so I find the notion interesting.

He still brags to this day about building a Subaru engine for a Liberty in the early 90's that to this day has still not required a rebuild. Considering how much torque those things have, I kind of find it a little comical.

Now, of course, the engine/driver may not be going as hard as the V8's, but SURELY there can be a compromise between longevity/performance, even with the current engines? The idea that a guy who was on $30,000 can build a stronger engine than some of these professional teams is a little laughable (no disrespect Dad).

I see what people are saying with parts though. As long as all teams are commited to "cost saving", it wouldn't be a problem, but I could quickly see a smaller team sticking with the plan, but a lrger team "pushing the envelope" a little.

I guess to make anything like that work, you'd need significant strengthening modifications, which takes it away from a production engine (but still production based).

I see some benefits though. The torquey 5.4 being good around smaller tracks and at the tighter bits of bathurst, and 6.0 having a HP advantage. Would the teams agree though?

[GTRMagic]

Interesting discussion Here

SBRE to build all Ford engines?? A tender to build all Chev engines...

Sounds like a real approach to cost reduction!

Will it happen....

[Bimmerhead]

V8SC starting to look more and more like Formula Ford? Might put some of the "who's the best driver" arguments to bed if all the cars were close to identical.........

[Razor]

Sounds logical as SBRE practically builds around 90% of Ford team engines. Teams like:
Stone Brothers (duh!)
TeamVodafone
Glenfords Racing
Team Kiwi

The only teams that don't use the SBR engine are Britek, FPR and FRSR and DJR.

Holden is in the same pool as most teams use TWR engines. Such as:
HRT
HSVDT
GRM
BJR
TDR/RNR
PWR

Tasman, JDR and SCAR use their own engines.

So it will be good to see VESA to use control makers because you line up a WP engine to a Perkins donk and how much is there in terms of difference? 1 or 2 HP?

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Razor

Sounds logical as SBRE practically builds around 90% of Ford team engines. Teams like:
Stone Brothers (duh!)
TeamVodafone
Glenfords Racing
Team Kiwi

The only teams that don't use the SBR engine are Britek, FPR and FRSR and DJR.

Holden is in the same pool as most teams use TWR engines. Such as:
HRT
HSVDT
GRM
BJR
TDR/RNR
PWR

Tasman, JDR and SCAR use their own engines.

So it will be good to see VESA to use control makers because you line up a WP engine to a Perkins donk and how much is there in terms of difference? 1 or 2 HP?

'

FRSR are moving forward as Patrizi comes to grips with V8SC without bending it - seems to have the speed even if he is battling for race pace (as was Winky in the GRM days). Nothing wrong with the FPR powerplant.

[banksie]

Originally Posted by Razor

Holden is in the same pool as most teams use TWR engines. Such as:
HRT
HSVDT
GRM
BJR
TDR/RNR
PWR

PWR build their own engines.

[deeks6]

And the other question of which is the best ...

From the look of it, there is not much difference between the SBR, FPR and Walkinshoddy powerplants. The DJR engines seems to be more torquey with their drive out of corners but a tad lower on HP than the other 2. The Perky powerplants don't seem to lack anything as you would expect and neither, surprisingly do the PMMs.

The Britek and Tasman donks are complete rubbish from the look of it. Is it just me or do those Tasman cars have a completely different sound too?

[Malfunction Junction]

Personally I'd like to see DJR & Perko get the gigs respectively, but so long as somebody does, it's got to be a step in the right direction.

[Denosaur]

Originally Posted by deeks6

And the other question of which is the best ...

From the look of it, there is not much difference between the SBR, FPR and Walkinshoddy powerplants. The DJR engines seems to be more torquey with their drive out of corners but a tad lower on HP than the other 2. The Perky powerplants don't seem to lack anything as you would expect and neither, surprisingly do the PMMs.

The Britek and Tasman donks are complete rubbish from the look of it. Is it just me or do those Tasman cars have a completely different sound too?

You'll find that each engine and engine builder has his own way of getting th power out. For example, HRT have been known for producing an engine that get's the power down quick and helps them move out the corner. Why?? They have spent time working on the internals , crank, conrods and pistons to get them down to the minimal weight as possible. Having less weight in the part reduces the energy sapping properties and can increases the speed that it takes to get through the rev range. At some rounds you can see when engines are built in such fashion, such as Oran Park last year and the year before.

It is all part of a trade off that the teams need to work out, do they want drive out the corners, or power down the straights. Any decent engine builder will work on making the engine have a bit of both, as SBR have demonstrated over the last couple of years. If the budget allowed it, and if they spent some time working on it, a team could have both types of engine characteristic available in there stock pile and switch between rounds.

As for Tasman having a different sound. That comes from shape of the induction system, piston tops, heads, ports, valves and exhaust. Maybe a bit of timing and the cam profile.

What really needs to happen is that they change the regulations and allow in what is basically the current spec of NASCAR blocks. Jason Bright called for such a change after Clipsal, as said that it would make a different to the R&D and engine budget for the year. The only advantage of the switch I see, without increase the rev range, would be that the engines might not be as highly strung as they are now.

[SSbaby]

All rivetting reading in regards to conclusions drawn by some armchair afficionados...

The powerdown advantage has a lot to do with suspension tune as well. I'd rather have an engine that's 50bhp down on my rival if it meant I had better drive out of corners... as the tyres will last longer and make my car look like it had 100bhp more than my competitor later in the race.

In answer to GTR's question... I would be dead against SBR getting a tender to build the Chev donks. I wouldn't want the monopoly to be cynical targets in case the Holden engines 'underperform'.

[Razor]

I thought for 08 they were getting Walkinshaw donks.

[banksie]

No, they are still running their own engines. They are receiving WP engineering support, hence Rob Starr's involvement.

[Razor]

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/content...olden_duopoly/

Wayne Cattach has said that V8 Supercars are looking to change from the current pushrod engines used in the Falcons and Commodores to a quadcam engine.

“There could be a case to go for a more modern engine, perhaps longer lasting, and probably that means there is room somewhere in the future to use a larger capacity engine that doesn't work as hard,” he said.

“It's not being discussed at the moment, but I think it's an option that should be looked at when determining what the cars might look like in the future.”

What do we think people?

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Razor

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/content...olden_duopoly/

What do we think people?

What's longer lasting than a pushrod V8? Seriously how are V8SC expecting to contain costs by going a DOHC V8? Inviting other makers is OK, IMHO... particularly as the category needs to ensure its survival.

Surely, the respective productions V8 are suitable for racing? Just benchmark the engines as they currently do in the Brute Utes series for power/torque. Adjustments could be made over time to equalise any performance disparities.

Toyota have a pushrod V8 and 4.7/5.7 DOHC (trucks).
Nissan have a 5.6L V8 (truck).
Chrysler have a 5.7/6.1L.

All of a sudden we have flash new sheetmetal and different sounding V8s.

[peckstar]

mo [rpblems from me, as long as we have some form of parity

[GTRMagic]

Here's a more interesting idea... why not tender the engine supply of a bespoke V8Supercar engine to someone like a Brian Hart or AER.. and have SBRE prepare and operate the engines for the field?