Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[V8 Fireworks]

So... What will be on the Supercars grid come 2022?

Body types:
A Mustang with a more production-looking roofline thanks to a new revised roll cage spaceframe design?

Will there be any other body types apart the 'Stang?

Powertrains:
To remain market relevant, an off-the-shelf hybrid element has been mooted. BTCC and Nascar are supposed to adopt a similar system... Such a move may be necessary to get manufacturers interested.

Should the Mustang "GT" be replaced by the Mustang "Ecoboost" with the rorty downsize four cylinder turbo that is more market relevant?

Other tech regs:

Will wider rear tyres finally be introduced?

A paddle shift? (Boooooo!)

Alternative:

Will Gen 3 be abandoned due to costs and existing COTF will race on indefinitely?

[one five five]

If they are going to use a new platform, how do they come to the Gen3 name?

[BlueMax]

Just go to GT4. The work is already done. Mustang and Camaro already racing in it plus BMW.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by BlueMax

Just go to GT4. The work is already done. Mustang and Camaro already racing in it plus BMW.

... And nobody seems to care.

[HDTVKSS]

The issue with GT4 (although i agree its a good choice) is GT3 exists and is faster / sexier and do they really want to go that path without eliminating GT3 in this country?

or, just TCR....

[one five five]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

The issue with GT4 (although i agree its a good choice) is GT3 exists and is faster / sexier and do they really want to go that path without eliminating GT3 in this country?

or, just TCR....

GT3 cars are faster than Supercars already. Why would it matter?

What sense does it make to build complete ground-up versions of Mustangs, Camaro’s, M4’s etc... for a single series in one country, when all the cars already exist and are built en masse?

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by BlueMax

Just go to GT4. The work is already done. Mustang and Camaro already racing in it plus BMW.

Google 'exciting GT4 race'. I'd be surprised if you get a return on your search.

[Sandgroper]

Twin Turbo Panel Van

[thunderbolt]

https://www.motoring.com.au/bmw-m4-s...vealed-122089/ BMW M4 Supercar revealed
https://autoaction.com.au/

[HDTVKSS]

Originally Posted by thunderbolt

https://www.motoring.com.au/bmw-m4-s...vealed-122089/ BMW M4 Supercar revealed
https://autoaction.com.au/

There will be better looking and faster versions running around Bathurst at the 12 hour... just saying....

[Forda]

Another question might be whether Supercars considers having its own proprietary vehicle construction regulations as being integral to it's perceived value?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Forda

Another question might be whether Supercars considers having its own proprietary vehicle construction regulations as being integral to it's perceived value?

Only because the teams themselves would have to divest of huge amounts of staff, at massive cost, if they suddenly were no longer developing and manufacturing cars.

And Roger would have nowhere to spend $20m to get ahead...

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Only because the teams themselves would have to divest of huge amounts of staff, at massive cost, if they suddenly were no longer developing and manufacturing cars.

Plenty of jobs have been lost in the Supercars industry in the last 23 years, for reasons that were described as progress, why should this be any different?

Teams want cheaper cars, here’s a way of doing it.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by one five five

Plenty of jobs have been lost in the Supercars industry in the last 23 years, for reasons that were described as progress, why should this be any different?

This kind of move would be a seismic shift, akin to losing car manufacturing.

The huge job losses in such a concentrated area would mean a lot of people who wouldn't easily again find similar work.

This is why the teams themselves might be seen to be their own worst enemy, and resistant to change.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Mixer

This kind of move would be a seismic shift, akin to losing car manufacturing.

So if Supercars moved from a control chassis and a silhouette formula, to a production chassis; this would be akin to Ford/Holden/Toyota quitting manufacturing in Australia??

Originally Posted by Mixer

The huge job losses in such a concentrated area would mean a lot of people who wouldn't easily again find similar work.

Pace Innovations wouldn't be able to further diversify their operations?
Welders and fabricators can't be re-positioned or re-employed?

Originally Posted by Mixer

This is why the teams themselves might be seen to be their own worst enemy, and resistant to change.

They're not adaptable to change; yet in many cases have gone from Blueprint to Gen2 without much trouble?

[Langers]

I certainly hope they don’t put on wider tyres and paddle shift!

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Langers

I certainly hope they don’t put on wider tyres and paddle shift!

I would think paddles are a given for Gen 3

[Maggo]

Originally Posted by one five five

I would think paddles are a given for Gen 3

[ford71]

I hope not!
Already too far down the wrong path

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by ford71

I hope not!
Already too far down the wrong path

Combustion engine racing is on the way out...

Francois Rebeiro, TCR category manager:

If we all love combustion motorsport, and I think we do, the coming years will be brutal, violent. There will be decisions, in any championship, which will be so hard, so difficult, in every category of motorsport. Rallying, F1, touring cars, GT. The series that won't adapt to the energy transition of the automotive industry can die.

Are Supercars doing enough to prepare for the future!?

It seems Francois Rebeiro is far, far, far more on the pulse than Sean Seamer, which the Supercars category surely has to find alarming...

.......

Therefore for Gen 3 I would propose:
- 2L turbocharged four cylinder engines producing 500hp, combined with a 150hp hybrid electric system, to retain the current 650hp.
- Flexible roll cage rules: but a decision needs to be made whether to require 2 door vehicles only (Mustang Ecoboost, BMW 830i etc) or 4 door vehicles only vehicles (Peugeot 508, Kia Stinger etc). Having sedans racing against coupes, as present, seems very sloppy.
- Significantly reduce homologation costs for a new manufacturer, including Supercars paying for homologations.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Combustion engine racing is on the way out...

Francois Rebeiro, TCR category manager:


Are Supercars doing enough to prepare for the future!?

It seems Francois Rebeiro is far, far, far more on the pulse than Sean Seamer, which the Supercars category surely has to find alarming...

.......

Therefore for Gen 3 I would propose:
- 2L turbocharged four cylinder engines producing 500hp, combined with a 150hp hybrid electric system, to retain the current 650hp.
- Flexible roll cage rules: but a decision needs to be made whether to require 2 door vehicles only (Mustang Ecoboost, BMW 830i etc) or 4 door vehicles only vehicles (Peugeot 508, Kia Stinger etc). Having sedans racing against coupes, as present, seems very sloppy.
- Significantly reduce homologation costs for a new manufacturer, including Supercars paying for homologations.

Coupes have raced Sedans in touring car competition the world over for 50+ years, why is it sloppy all of a sudden in 2019?

[Maggo]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Therefore for Gen 3 I would propose:
- 2L turbocharged four cylinder engines producing 500hp, combined with a 150hp hybrid electric system, to retain the current 650hp.

Why?
1. Hybrid increases costs and makes motorsport complicated
2. V8 is what we love on the supercars. I would not change that. Supercars will be dead within 2 years if the V8 leaves (like the Commodore)


If Gen3 is so cheap that we dont need manufacturers then Supercars has a future. We see now that car manufacturers change their minds within weeks so I would try to make Supercars independent from manufacturers and use cheap technology but make it fascinating for viewers and fans.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Maggo

Why?
1. Hybrid increases costs and makes motorsport complicated
2. V8 is what we love on the supercars. I would not change that. Supercars will be dead within 2 years if the V8 leaves (like the Commodore)


If Gen3 is so cheap that we dont need manufacturers then Supercars has a future. We see now that car manufacturers change their minds within weeks so I would try to make Supercars independent from manufacturers and use cheap technology but make it fascinating for viewers and fans.

Hi Maggo,

I don't like the word cheap, but I have to agree with your sentiments, as relying an manufactures support is a road to no were. However, retaining silhouette bodies of iconic manufactures and or models, still makes sense, because the fan base, and the all important so called "eyeball" social media reach still responds to such stimuli.

Lower cost's can be achieved by the increased use of controlled components, and the biggest one is also the "Elephant in the room" the engine.

One thing that I regret not doing when I started V8 SuperTourers in New Zealand, back in 2012 was not offering a Ford based equivalent engine to the LS7 engine. Shortly before the collapse of the Series I was in the process of purchasing Ford aftermarket engine componentary to build such an engine alternative, the problem I faced back then that the Ford based engine was going to cost twice the price of the off the shelf LS7 crate engine. The fix for that, at least in my mind, was to make the two engine cost the same money, i.e. one subsidising the other.

Unfortunately the Series collapsed before I had time to introduce the concept, let alone put it into practice.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Maggo]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hi Maggo,

I don't like the word cheap,...

Cheers,

Mark.

perhaps is affordable the better word.

Originally Posted by Johno.UK

Why would it be dead if there are no V8's? Personally I watch for the style of racing rather than what's under the bonnet. It would make no difference whatsoever to me if it was a 4 cylinder engine or a V8. I seriously doubt the majority of fans only watch because they are V8's.

The sound of a V8 makes a lot of the fascination.

Originally Posted by Johno.UK

I can see there being a lot synergy between the direction the BTCC has gone in with it's new hybrid system and Supercars. Alan Gow (BTCC boss) has already said that they've shown a lot of interest in what they're doing. Hybrid doesn't have to be that complex or expensive but it ticks a lot of boxes for manufacturers which the big series need.

I like what BTCC is doing but I see no advantage in hybrid.
When the engine doesn't matter like you say (V8 vs R4) why would spectators care about hybrid systems? In my opinion they just increase the costs without a benefit.

[Johno.UK]

Originally Posted by Maggo

Why?
1. Hybrid increases costs and makes motorsport complicated
2. V8 is what we love on the supercars. I would not change that. Supercars will be dead within 2 years if the V8 leaves (like the Commodore)

Why would it be dead if there are no V8's? Personally I watch for the style of racing rather than what's under the bonnet. It would make no difference whatsoever to me if it was a 4 cylinder engine or a V8. I seriously doubt the majority of fans only watch because they are V8's.



I can see there being a lot synergy between the direction the BTCC has gone in with it's new hybrid system and Supercars. Alan Gow (BTCC boss) has already said that they've shown a lot of interest in what they're doing. Hybrid doesn't have to be that complex or expensive but it ticks a lot of boxes for manufacturers which the big series need.