Mercedes in ACO series and the next decade

[tomcosgrave]

Okay so we all know that Mercedes have a huge amount of baggage as far as endurance racing is concerned. 1955 and 1999. And they seem really spooked by that and I guess it is not a surprise - 1999 did them harm in terms of damage to the brand.

But time moves on and as more and more manufacturers move into hypercar manufacture, surely Mercedes are going to be forced to compete?

I know F1 will take their resources for some time yet but surely they have to consider it? Comments so far from them are a "no" but not a hard no either.

Surely they at least have to do GT3 when that starts up?

PS: I drive a Mercedes, I'm a tad partial here ;-)

[Pandamasque]

Ford's baggage is entirely positive, and yet they don't feel forced to compete at all. Why should Mercedes? Especially in the age when a rap video with greased semi-naked butts on a Merc will sell more cars than a Le Mans win.

In fact, with a dozen manufacturers already in, the chances of anyone else joining get lower with every additional entry. For those racing in WEC next year chances of a podium are fairly good. In 2023 and beyond there's a real possibility of some full-fledged works programme lingering at the bottom of the top-10. This factor is likely already a talking point amongst decision makers, especially those with recent Formula E experience. A mass exodus of OEMs after 2 years is possible too.

We want manufacturers to come and compete. Whereas they enter to win, each and every one of them. At this point, even mathematically, there aren't enough rounds for every brand to win once.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Especially in the age when a rap video with greased semi-naked butts on a Merc will sell more cars than a Le Mans win.

Could you provide a link please?

Edit: mod note. Please don’t!

[Pandamasque]

Is it for a friend?

PS: just to clarify, I'd love to see Mercedes join the party (not the one with greased butts). I'd say Mercedes and Ford are the two biggest names missing from the expected all-star 2023 grid. It's just that with the direction of the car industry right now, I'm amazed so many have already committed as it is.

[Adam43]

I agree it would be great.

Not that it is the same GT3, but they might accidentally find themselves in an Am entry? Long way to go there, who knows how that develops.

In the top class, never say never, but I don’t see it either. They’re busy elsewhere. Can they make it self sufficient? That would help, but are there enough backers out there? Even if they did make it free, I just think their minds are elsewhere. F1 and greased butts.

[joeb]

The comparisons to GT3 are interesting, because there are so many manufacturers there and they have not always all won. So besides Lamborghini are there any other manufacturers looking at a solely customer program? That could provide some cover if they don't win, they can just say we provide an excellent car and there's fierce competition and it's up to our partner teams to deliver.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by joeb

The comparisons to GT3 are interesting, because there are so many manufacturers there and they have not always all won. So besides Lamborghini are there any other manufacturers looking at a solely customer program? That could provide some cover if they don't win, they can just say we provide an excellent car and there's fierce competition and it's up to our partner teams to deliver.

Keep in mind that Lamborghini will likely be just adding a fresh set of stickers and some headlights to the equation that will have been developed and raced for a year by works efforts. Mercedes doesn't have that opportunity. So even investing into an LMDh car only to leave the returns at the mercy of independent privateers is a harder sell. Not to mentioned that anyone entering now would be a little late to the party with all 4 LMP2 chassis providers already busy with important projects with other manufacturers.

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Would Merc's F1 V6 be transferrable to Hypercar?

Almost anything is, at a cost.

[hondafan37]

Mercedes is a cheating team, as demonstrated in the last 2 F1 races.
They won the last 7 world championships but they cannot accept being defeated this year by Red bull so they resort to cheating to remain champion.
WE DON'T WANT THOSE TEAMS THAT GO TO THE CHEATING IN THE SPORTSCAR!!!

[Adam43]

Especially if they bring their F1/football type fans with them who just want to shout and argue on the internet.

That post isn’t worthy of the F1 forum let alone the sportscar forum on 10-10ths. Try Twitter.

That is not the topic of the thread. /end

[Aysedasi]

I must ask my son about greased butts. It's clearly a technical racing term.....

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Mercedes is a cheating team, as demonstrated in the last 2 F1 races.
They won the last 7 world championships but they cannot accept being defeated this year by Red bull so they resort to cheating to remain champion.
WE DON'T WANT THOSE TEAMS THAT GO TO THE CHEATING IN THE SPORTSCAR!!!

[tomcosgrave]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I must ask my son about greased butts. It's clearly a technical racing term.....

The slang phrase is "ground effect" ;-)

[tomcosgrave]

Good points made...I was looking at it from a corporate level. Could be a whole load of German manufacturers in over the next say, 5 or 6 years. At a corporate level, can Mercedes really not afford to have some sort of run in endurance racing? GT3 might be the answer.

As to the point about Ford, they've won a Le Mans victory in class in the last decade so they can sit back if want, even if they did leave a bit early for my liking. And they've a much better heritage in endurance racing than Mercedes.

And I know Mercedes don't have to - but isn't it time they just bit the bullet and got on with it in their own interest? GT3 might be the answer - not a hardcore and risky LMH or LMDh but a compromise for the brand.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by tomcosgrave

And I know Mercedes don't have to - but isn't it time they just bit the bullet and got on with it in their own interest? GT3 might be the answer - not a hardcore and risky LMH or LMDh but a compromise for the brand.

I don't know, but for me, it would be a cop out.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by tomcosgrave

And I know Mercedes don't have to - but isn't it time they just bit the bullet and got on with it in their own interest? GT3 might be the answer - not a hardcore and risky LMH or LMDh but a compromise for the brand.

the point of the matter is about interests...

all mercedes motorsport programs are basically managed by toto wolff, he is CEO of mercedes f1 team which controls brixworth and brackley factories...
mercedes most secret and advances technologies are basically in his hands, many experts think that toto wolff aims to get a key role in mercedes board as basically jean todt was able to do in ferrari.
Considering toto wolff about 5 years ago sold his stakes of HWA (the company who made dtm cars and was running the official program) I think he isn't interested in motorsport but only in f1 program that can help him to fulfill his goals in future. At the moment I can't see anything but f1 as big budget program for mercedes, also because when they came back in endurance in late '90 they were involved only as engines suppliers in f1 and US cart, it wasn't even a direct effort since mercedes engines were made by ilmor.

[Sodemo]

Would Merc's F1 V6 be transferrable to Hypercar?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Would Merc's F1 V6 be transferrable to Hypercar?

guess it's possible, also because current f1 v6 lifespan is about 5000km, not to consider that to reach 670-700hp it would need to rev lower than usual 12000rpm.

"Little" problem is that the v6 alone should cost like 4-5 hypercars...



Anyway, I think LM and endurance in general isn't appealing enough for mercedes, they entered FE because it's a cheap championship with FIA status and great worldwide coverage but it seems they got tired of that as well. Considering also that unlike ferrari that has a great LM/endurance heritage and despite great days back in late'80 with sauber cars, mercedes at LM is remembered mainly for tragedies and epic fails.

[Simmi]

Keeping that massive F1 staff busy with the cost caps is probably the biggest reason to do something. But I'm still not sure. I know they've been putting more emphasis into their Applied Science division, taking on some cool projects. Small bit of cross-over there with my day job - https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/applied-science/

But in a world where VW made a PR play of actively moving away from motorsport (side note: F.U. VW!), I'm just not that sure any manufacturer feels pressure to spend money on this stuff.