Cadwell and Code 60

[coppice]

A good club race meeting was spoiled at Cadwell yesterday by the utterly ludicrous Code 60 deployments . It might work in a 2 hour endurance race , but in a 15 minute club race, and deployed after 1 lap for the duration? A complete charade. BRSCC - please bin this silly idea asap .

Stop the race if it's a bad shunt or, if it's less serious .. and here's an idea from the left field , we could maybe have waving flags to alert drivers? Something bright -maybe yellow ? It just might catch on .....

[Dave Brand]

Utterly ludicrous from whose viewpoint? The drivers', the marshals', the rescue units', the recovery drivers'?

Stop the race? In an ideal world, yes, but the real world is one where timetables are so tight that red flagging a couple of races would have meant that there was no way the programme could have been completed.

Stop a race & you'll lose something like 15 minutes or more by the time all the cars have returned to the pit lane, been sent out on a green flag lap, gridded up & the race started. Of course you must add to that the time taken to deal with the incident, so in most cases the time lost could be equivalent to the time alloted for the race.

As for your snide comments about yellow flags, don't you think they were used? Yellow flags don't magically remove cars which are stranded in a dangerous position or create relatively safe conditions for an incident on or close to the track to be dealt with. If the incident is less serious then it will be dealt with under waved yellows & the hazard board displayed for the rest of the race.

Code 60 provides a quick, simple way of neutralising a race while, compared with the use of a safety car, reducing the number of racing laps lost. Another advantage is that gaps between cars are (or should be) maintained, much fairer than the way they are closed up under the safety car.

Code 60 is all about safety, both for those working trackside in whatever capacity & for the drivers. I don't think anyone who asked for its use at Cadwell this weekend did so frivolously or unnecessarily.

[Lancsbreaker]

Not experienced Code 60 yet, though we've bought a GPS speedo to help us to adhere to it if needed, but I can sort of see the irritation expressed if indeed all but the 1st lap of a "race" was run under it. However I've had a look at TSL and although it was deployed a lot, only one of the Fiesta races and one Mazda MX5 Supercup race were badly affected. The Fiesta race seemingly having been aborted after 12 minutes of a 20 minute race -having had 2 laps of Code 60, and the Mazda race being run for all but 3 laps under Code 60. I'm sure drivers in the race felt somewhat frustrated.....

I take the point that times were probably very tight - there appears to have been a somewhat optimistic cramming in of too many poorly supported races to allow much leeway for red-flag incidents.

Really what is needed is a code 60 deployment only for (say) a sector - say two or three marshal posts before the incident until the post incident green flag. Of course if drivers could remove the red mist and actually drive appropriately under waved yellows, it wouldn't be needed at all........

[andy97]

The trouble is that, at the moment, very few club racers have a GPS speedo so the 60kph speed is very arbitrary. Is it really safer if some cars are circulating at 70 kph (thinking they are doing 60) and are catching drivers doing 40 kph (thinking they are doing 60).

Until it is mandatory to have a gps speedo in a race car it's pointless, and probably safer to have a safety car.

That has its own frustrations and is unfair, too, but is probably safest for the marshals. If I was a marshal I think I'd rather work in the long gap between the train coming round than the irregular gaps of drivers whose speed I can't be sure of.

Make gps speedo mandatory, with recording, and try again.

[Adam43]

Any interruption to a race, especially if it reduces racing time is frustrating for driver who's put much effort into getting there. However, it is understandable as safety is a must.

I guess it wasn't clear it would take 15 minutes to sort and it should have been red flagged. That could potentially have stopped the race and moved it to the end of the day, if there was time left. Which would also have been frustrating.

Is that the issue here? The loss of the race/pointless driving round? Rather than code 60 per se? I guess it is.

The sarcy yellow comment isn't really necessary as it is a given that race control is trying its best for the drivers. Unfortunately experience shows that local yellows don't always have the desired effect.

I like the idea of a kind of local code 60 as suggested by Lancsbreaker. It works at Le Mans, but they have more tech in the cars to aid this. Us clubbies don't have all that (except the odd GPS!). Perhaps we could all invest in some official GPS/signalling/timing/messaging/recording equipment for the cockpit? Based on the transponder reaction, I suspect this wouldn't be popular.

Originally Posted by andy97

..
That has its own frustrations and is unfair, too, but is probably safest for the marshals. If I was a marshal I think I'd rather work in the long gap between the train coming round than the irregular gaps of drivers whose speed I can't be sure of.

Make gps speedo mandatory, with recording, and try again.

The choice of code 60 and SC (or red) is made based on the type of issue. Either can be used. Code 60 has the advantage for the drivers as it means less time is wasted getting everyone together and the generally longer SC periods. So, when appropriate they are good and tend to be fairer (although not completely fair) than alternatives.

I'm not against some mandatory equipment to help. Unless ridiculously expensive it may be comparable to the cost of the race time it gives back?

[Dave Brand]

I can see the thinking behind partial Code 60, but I'm not sure about the practicalities. For me, one of the good points about Code 60 is that when it's withdrawn every post goes green simultaneously & you're racing straight away - no waiting to overtake until you've crossed the start line. Incidentally, there is no post-incident green flag under Code 60

Judging speed is going to be a problem for cars without speedos. For that reason, on Saturday the Sports 2000s started their practice sessions under Code 60 conditions behind the course car, maybe something other formulae could copy.

An interesting comment from an MX5 driver who pulled off at my post on Sunday. He'd totally legally gained places after a Code 60 restart because he'd seen a marshal who was holding the Code 60 flag reaching for another flag. . . he was anticipating the green flag, the other drivers weren't!

[Adam43]

Brilliant, it always pays to know where the marshal posts are and look at them

[wolfhound]

Would it be possible to have a GPS speedo in view of an on board camera? That should solve any issues with code 60.

[MGDavid]

I don't accept the need for GPS speedos or any other sort, that would be just another rule that lines suppliers' pockets.
How do drivers currently adhere to pitlane speed limit? Use the same method.
Simple.
If I need to spell it out, mark the rev counter with the revs at 60 in a relevant gear.

[coppice]

If Code 60 means that a 15 minute race is devalued (from everybody's perspective ) to a one lap sprint followed by a 13 minute crawl it patently isn't the answer.
Perhaps if yellows had more respect - and there were more evidence of repercussions for those who ignored them - we wouldn't have the problem . Odd that we have managed decades of club racing without code 60 .....

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by coppice

Odd that we have managed decades of club racing without code 60 .....

"We" managed decades of racing at all levels without safety cars or, indeed all sorts of stuff that we now consider necessary.

Code 60 is NOT the problem; if it had not been available at Cadwell those races would have been neutralised by the use of the Safety Car, resulting in the loss of even more racing laps.

The organising clubs are not philanthropic organisations, they are businesses. To survive a business must make money; the clubs make money by charging their customers, the drivers, for their product, races.

Back in the "good old days", not so many years ago, a typical one-day club meeting would run seven or eight races; now it can be as many as eleven or twelve. Why? Because the cost of running a race meeting is now so high that the clubs are having to spread the cost over more entrants to keep the cost of entry down to something like reasonable (well, actually they are far from reasonable!).

Given the increased number of races to cram into a meeting, the clubs don't have the luxury of having plenty of slack in the timetable to allow for race stoppages so, for better or for worse, incidents which in the past would have caused a race stop are being dealt with on a live track with the race neutralised, be it with the Safety Car or under code 60. By doing that there's a reasonable chance that the programme can be completed without the need to shorten or, even worse, cancel subsequent races.

Code 60 may not be perfect, but it's a real-world solution to a real-world problem.

[coppice]

You make good points and I respect them . But Code 60 has the potential to turn a race meeting to a farce - if I'm watching I don't want to pay to see a 40 mph procession and if I were racing I wouldn't be over impressed at taking the time and money to do so only to do most of my race at a slower speed than I drove from Horncastle . Let's see if it gets better - it's a work in progress I guess .....

[fergus_r]

Originally Posted by coppice

You make good points and I respect them . But Code 60 has the potential to turn a race meeting to a farce - if I'm watching I don't want to pay to see a 40 mph procession and if I were racing I wouldn't be over impressed at taking the time and money to do so only to do most of my race at a slower speed than I drove from Horncastle . Let's see if it gets better - it's a work in progress I guess .....

Just like running under the Safety Car then (only that takes up MORE time than Code 60).

[andy97]

I just don't think it's relevant in 15 or 20 min sprint races.

I do understand very well the time pressures of the organisers but at the moment it's my view that in short races it's a waste of time. As is the safety car.

I can see the validity in 40 min races, BUT organisers need to be confident that all competitors have a verifiable means of monitoring speed otherwise it has the potential to be dangerous and is certainly meaningless, as the gaps will not be consistent.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Back in the "good old days", not so many years ago, a typical one-day club meeting would run seven or eight races; now it can be as many as eleven or twelve. Why? Because the cost of running a race meeting is now so high that the clubs are having to spread the cost over more entrants to keep the cost of entry down to something like reasonable (well, actually they are far from reasonable!).

You could equally argue that in the old days typical grids were 26 cars therefore not as many races were needed for the same number of entries and so the programme didn't need to be so packed.

Back to the topic, Code 60 in my experience works extremely well and sure allow a swift clear up in safety. We need to get used to it at club level, and especially educate the drivers that they need to do it properly. Perhaps with the threat that if they don't it will be a red flag with no restart. Instant penalty will concentrate the minds.

Code 60 won't work under all circumstances, but I think with common sense it will work under most. The old battenburg would have worked better if it had been deployed properly which is something code 60 deals with.

Just give it time, and then review. On the other hand, I can't disagree with the 'if drivers obeyed yellow flags properly we could work safely without it being needed'. And as for code 60 over short distances (Slow Zones WEC call them) that's sort of what a yellow flag sector is, isn't it?

[SlatorRacing]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Just give it time, and then review. On the other hand, I can't disagree with the 'if drivers obeyed yellow flags properly we could work safely without it being needed'. And as for code 60 over short distances (Slow Zones WEC call them) that's sort of what a yellow flag sector is, isn't it?

The problem with yellow flags though is that there is no solid line which a driver needs to hit (such as a speed limit). It's quite easy to drive through a yellow flag zone without attracting the attention of the officials but not losing much time whatsoever but still being in complete control of the car.

Code60 provides that acceptable solid line.

I'm on the fence with Code60 in general, but I for it for longer races where deploying the safety car destroys gaps built up. Code60 with a closed pitlane keeps the result to the on-track performance.

[Adam43]

But the alternative is a SC and then the gaps just disappear. Or, as I had once, grow because someone couldn't keep up. You could have the same with code 60, but generally it is a just a little better with code 60. With a SC I once got stuck in the pits too, ruined my race, but ultimately I was just unlucky and race control had to neutralise the race.

Yes, it's all not ideal. But there is a reason for having these best solutions.

To Dave Brand's point, we could pay more for our races so they don't have to have as each race and can be more relaxed to this kind of thing?

[ofarc]

Hi all,

Interesting read about how you all perceive Code 60 to be. My company has created a device called SpeedMarshal, more details can be found on our website www.speedmarshal.com

This device allows the driver to see what speed they are doing by a Driver Indicator System inside the cockpit. This is a GPS device and would be activated by the driver when the Code 60 flag comes out. It will also display externally on the cars a warning light system on the rear and side of cars. If the car is over 60kph the lights will flash, if at or below 60kph then the light system is a static on. The light system will also aid other drivers who might not have seen the Code 60 flags being waved, and alert them to look at flag posts. When the green flag is deployed then the driver simply accelerates and the device turns off automatically when the car passes a certain speed.

In the UK most pit lane speed limits are also 60kph, and again this device can be activated making pit lane speeding a thing of the past.

It also has two other neat safety features. Static start warning system, and breakdown warning system. On a standing start all cars would have their rear rain light flashing yellow. If the car gets away and above 15 kph, the light goes off, but if the car does not get away, the lights stays flashing. This will help reduce start line crash accidents seen every week.

If the car slows such as having a puncture and is limping back to the pits then the rear rain light flashes yellow if the speed is below 40 kph. Imagine a car that has stopped on track, it would be hard to judge what is going on when racing, a flashing warning light makes that judgment far easier and safer. Again another safety feature.

Code 60 has many advantages for both endurance and sprint races. I witnessed a race in Holland run by the DNRT. A car had got beached on a kerb, the Code 60 flag came out, the drivers really do obey the flag (they also do use our system), within 40 seconds the car had been recovered, and racing had started again. If a SC had been deployed, it would have taken at least 3 laps for it to gather all the cars in a snake, recover the beached car and get racing underway. In a 15 minute sprint race that could be 3-8 minutes depending on the length of the track. That is a fair amount of race time lost.

Please check out our system

Many thanks for reading.

SPEEDMARSHAL.COM

[MGDavid]

We can well do without another motorsport 'tax' thanks. I note there's no mention of likely costs, nor how it copes with the known inaccuracy of GPS when moving other than in a level straight line (La Source and Brussels come immediately to mind). I've raced under Code 60 several times in Europe and it works well as it is, you just look at the speedometer.

[The Fat Clerk]

All a bit irrelevant now any way, I think CSCC are the only club that use this system. So I wouldn't waste my money.

[275 GTB-4]

Just a comment (from someone who has been part of a team running a very busy race schedule)

Once a Code 60 is called the aim in Race Control should be...
A. Quickly clear the problem,
B. Get the cars off the track (dummy grid or otherwise, or a holding area, or the pits),
C. Send the next group out ASAP.
D. Reschedule the original group for another slot, and if necessary at a reduced race time (10 instead of 15 minutes) which is better then slowly circulating...yes?

[Clearways]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

Just a comment (from someone who has been part of a team running a very busy race schedule)

Once a Code 60 is called the aim in Race Control should be...
A. Quickly clear the problem,
B. Get the cars off the track (dummy grid or otherwise, or a holding area, or the pits),
C. Send the next group out ASAP.
D. Reschedule the original group for another slot, and if necessary at a reduced race time (10 instead of 15 minutes) which is better then slowly circulating...yes?

Don't forget this is car racing in the UK. We have to send the course car out for a drive around after most/all sessions (dependent on organising club), every last marshal and vehicle must be clear of circuit before starting the green flag lap (for some organisers every last vehicle must be clear before even releasing onto the grid!). Run the green flag lap behind the safety car or with yellow flags while sweeping or tows are carried out, the red lights should go out when the last vehicle or marshal is clear of circuit.

If organsing clubs got on with it from the start (rather than when they are 25 minutes down at 5pm in the afternoon with a planned finish 5 minutes from curfew) they would find there is much more time available for stoppages. The drivers briefing should not be 20 minutes before qualifying so they cannot run early, there should be no note in the programme saying they can only run 20 minutes ahead, the lunchbreak should not be extended due to running ahead in the morning, they should just get on with it. A timetable without race start times does this well!

Go and see how Thundersport GB (Or BEMSEE to a slightly lesser degree) organise motorcycle racing. It's the way to do it.


Code 60 has issues with drivers not knowing when it is going to be displayed or withdrawn. This could be resolved by a board/flag signal 5 seconds before deployment and withdrawal - just like the '0' board during BSB safety cars.

Code 60 works very well in qualifying. It is safer than safety car - no idiot drivers hammering round to catch up with the train, in particular in races with pit stops.

[The Fat Clerk]

The Code 60 is in my opinion a complete joke, on Sunday I was a 'speccie' @ Cadwell and saw it being used for the first time, nothing I saw impressed me and I wouldn't want to use it for several reasons:

In one of the Fiesta races the field definitely 'joined up' under the flag.

In another (again Fiestas) drivers thought that their slick tyres were getting cold and so were weaving a lot, now whether that warms the tyres up is subjective but weaving like that leads to more accidents.

Now how about a race leader having a good race, pulling away from the field when on the whim of a Clerk of the Course the race is 'neutralised' he has no idea more than anyone else when the race is going back 'live' and he may get 'jumped', especially if the Marshals are seen swapping flags as described above, I saw that myself on the Start Line.

At least when you use a Safety Car once the lights go out the race leader controls the pace and decides 'when to go'.

A further negative for me was the size and colour of the flag, much smaller than all the other flags and best part of transparent in strong sunlight.

The one positive for me was the Course Car leading the field out from the Paddock and doing a lap @ 60kph for the Sports 2000, that was well thought out.

[The Fat Clerk]

Delete whim replace with instruction

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Clearways

Don't forget this is car racing in the UK. We have to send the course car out for a drive around after most/all sessions (dependent on organising club), every last marshal and vehicle must be clear of circuit before starting the green flag lap (for some organisers every last vehicle must be clear before even releasing onto the grid!). Run the green flag lap behind the safety car or with yellow flags while sweeping or tows are carried out, the red lights should go out when the last vehicle or marshal is clear of circuit.

If organsing clubs got on with it from the start (rather than when they are 25 minutes down at 5pm in the afternoon with a planned finish 5 minutes from curfew) they would find there is much more time available for stoppages. The drivers briefing should not be 20 minutes before qualifying so they cannot run early, there should be no note in the programme saying they can only run 20 minutes ahead, the lunchbreak should not be extended due to running ahead in the morning, they should just get on with it. A timetable without race start times does this well!

Go and see how Thundersport GB (Or BEMSEE to a slightly lesser degree) organise motorcycle racing. It's the way to do it.


Code 60 has issues with drivers not knowing when it is going to be displayed or withdrawn. This could be resolved by a board/flag signal 5 seconds before deployment and withdrawal - just like the '0' board during BSB safety cars.

Code 60 works very well in qualifying. It is safer than safety car - no idiot drivers hammering round to catch up with the train, in particular in races with pit stops.

I have said before that, in some respects, UK Marshalling needs a good shake- up.

Over here is far from perfect, but we do have the wherewithal (when all the moons and stars align) to run an efficient meeting.

Ego's and hidden agenda's are usually parked and the task at hand takes precedence when this happens