Caddy and Toyota

Edmonton · 6 Feb 2004, 19:32 (Ref:865728)

People have criticized caddy for doing a lot of testing and picking the races they would run but didn't Toyota due huge amounts of testing and did only 2 races-Lemans 98/99.

Fab · 6 Feb 2004, 19:34 (Ref:865730)

Probably to get in F1 faster.

Toyota is the biggest unachievement in LM, IMHO. They really deserve a victory. Why not sale that kind of cars to customers ? I still cannot swallow that...

JAG · 6 Feb 2004, 19:35 (Ref:865731)

Maybe they will let SARD win LM for them, and then claim it as there own.

Edmonton · 6 Feb 2004, 19:37 (Ref:865734)

Wouldn't that be like in the mid 80s when Joest with a privateer 956 beat the factory team at LM?

Tim Northcutt · 6 Feb 2004, 19:37 (Ref:865735)

I think that race cars are built to be raced...period...regardless of the builder or the team...

You don't learn anything or improve on what you've got by sitting in the garage and collecting dust...

It was my main criticism of both Lister and Team Nasamax last year, and also was my biggest problem with the Matthews Racing R&S in 2002...

Why spend that kind of money only to race 2, 3 or 4 times a year at the most???

jhansen · 6 Feb 2004, 19:53 (Ref:865744)

I agree with you FAB, big under-achievment for Toyota. The record is telling:

1998 - Car 27 = 9th, Car 28 = DNF, Car 29 = DNF
1999 - Car 1 = DNF, Car 2 = 2nd, Car 3 = DNF

Besides the 2nd place in 1999, the only other bright spot is that they earned the fastest lap for both races. Why didn't they contest the 1998 FIA GT championship? And they ran it as a GTP in 1999, why didn't they return in 2000? Just because of the F1 program? It's not like they were racing it that much anyways, surely they could have put together a two-car effort for 2000. Perhaps they were afraid of the Germans.

Oh well, at least it was an innovative car.

Edmonton · 6 Feb 2004, 19:55 (Ref:865747)

I don't think the FIA would let the GTOne run in the series.

cybersdorf · 6 Feb 2004, 19:59 (Ref:865750)

Quote:

Originally posted by Edmonton
I don't think the FIA would let the GTOne run in the series.

That's true, the GT-One was never FIA-homologated.

Cadillac was criticised for the way the programme as a whole was run (yes - no - maybe) than just for the races they did/did not run. After all, they did do a full season in ALMS, and just when things began to look up.........

JAG · 6 Feb 2004, 20:01 (Ref:865752)

Quote:

Originally posted by Edmonton
I don't think the FIA would let the GTOne run in the series.

The car could actually run in 1998 as it had full road type approval, a requirement of FIA GT. LM only required a lower level of type approval which the Nissan R390 had.

In 1999, the FIA actually proposed a protoytpe championship, run seperatly from FIA GT (now only GT and N-GT). Mercedes were going to enter, but Porsche pulled out and Audi were not interested. With only one manufactuer, the series never got off the ground.

cybersdorf · 6 Feb 2004, 20:05 (Ref:865755)

Quote:

Originally posted by JAG
[B]The car could actually run in 1998 as it had full road type approval, a requirement of FIA GT.

Really? I'd already forgotten about that.

JAG · 6 Feb 2004, 20:06 (Ref:865758)

Quote:

Originally posted by cybersdorf
Really? I'd already forgotten about that.

I remember this was one of the reasons it was believed Toyota would enter FIA GT. Brundle even hinted they would enter in 1998.

jhansen · 6 Feb 2004, 20:56 (Ref:865796)

A GTP championship would have been cool. Didn't know about that, thanks for the history lesson JAG. But in reality, would it have been any more successful than GT1 or FIA SCC was? Why did they not just morph the GT1 category of the FIA GT championship into a GTP class. It could have ran with the GT and N-GT classes.

Edmonton · 6 Feb 2004, 21:02 (Ref:865802)

The series would have been the FIA Sports Prototype Series for GTPs and Open prototypes.

JAG · 6 Feb 2004, 21:18 (Ref:865811)

Quote:

Originally posted by jhansen
A GTP championship would have been cool. Didn't know about that, thanks for the history lesson JAG. But in reality, would it have been any more successful than GT1 or FIA SCC was? Why did they not just morph the GT1 category of the FIA GT championship into a GTP class. It could have ran with the GT and N-GT classes.

GT1 was a major success. The problem was that when manufactuers switched from GT1 to LMP900, due to there advantages at LM, FIA GT did not cater for these cars.

So FIA GT lost out on BMW and Audi entries.

FIA SCC never allowed full ACO spec cars, let alone works cars.

The beauty of the LMES/ALMS regs is that they cater for all cars, open or closed.

kdr · 6 Feb 2004, 22:23 (Ref:865852)

for all that we sometimes knock audi...they have written the blueprint for how a manufacturer should go about things.

true its sad that toyota left sportscar racing, but hey...look at their great successes in f1..

Es Nes · 6 Feb 2004, 23:24 (Ref:865902)

heh ... dont forget the ts010 ...

JAG · 6 Feb 2004, 23:28 (Ref:865909)

What about the 1989 Toyota 89CV. Didn't this car get pole at LM, but the time was disallowed because it was the spare chassis that was used. Yet more bad luck for Toyota.

Graham Goodwin · 6 Feb 2004, 23:51 (Ref:865928)

The Toyota ran a third race - a single car entry in the 1999 100kms back in japan - If i remember rightly the race was won by a Nissan R391

**PascaLM** · 7 Feb 2004, 01:15 (Ref:865978)

I will never see GTOneon track again because its length exceeds the regulations. And its price should be to high for any private team.
In 1998 and 1999, Toyota was unlucky and all competitors were strong.

RacingManiac · 10 Feb 2004, 05:02 (Ref:869059)

Quote:

Originally posted by Graham Goodwin
The Toyota ran a third race - a single car entry in the 1999 100kms back in japan - If i remember rightly the race was won by a Nissan R391

Yep....it ran the Fuji 1000k that year back in Japan, again qualified on pole only to finish 2nd again...behind the Nissan...

simon c · 10 Feb 2004, 13:13 (Ref:869459)

Quote:

Originally posted by JAG
What about the 1989 Toyota 89CV. Didn't this car get pole at LM, but the time was disallowed because it was the spare chassis that was used. Yet more bad luck for Toyota.

didn't get pole, but geoff lees was second overall in qualifying.

i remember paulo barilla quoting figures in excess of 1100 bhp in qualifying spec' for the car (a la mark blundell in 1990).

The Badger · 10 Feb 2004, 14:12 (Ref:869519)

Quote:

Originally posted by Edmonton
People have criticized caddy for doing a lot of testing and picking the races they would run but didn't Toyota due huge amounts of testing and did only 2 races-Lemans 98/99.

Yeah , and I critisize them more !!! At least Caddy did race Sebring and what was left of the FIASCC series and some ALMS too . Im just sad that they pulled the plug on that car . I bet it would have been a great car by now

and the driver line up was second to none either .

I honestly feel that to avoid accidents (Eg,Mercedes-Benz) LeMans should insist that a new chassis should have completed in some races first and not just testing . The Benz did somewhere between 20 and 30 thousand klicks testing . But at LeMans it is a differant story . What kind of ******** is it to tell a driver not to follow the car in front too closely ?!

The Badger · 10 Feb 2004, 14:21 (Ref:869525)

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
I think that race cars are built to be raced...period...regardless of the builder or the team...

You don't learn anything or improve on what you've got by sitting in the garage and collecting dust...

It was my main criticism of both Lister and Team Nasamax last year, and also was my biggest problem with the Matthews Racing R&S in 2002...

Why spend that kind of money only to race 2, 3 or 4 times a year at the most???

Tim , I have been saying that all along with respect to the Intersport R&S . It wont do very well if the only time it runs is when someone with money turns up to race it !! Finally someone agrees with me about the Intersport deal

egor · 10 Feb 2004, 15:04 (Ref:869553)

Quote:

The Toyota ran a third race - a single car entry in the 1999 100kms back in japan

Must have been a sprint race

RobweenerPI · 11 Feb 2004, 05:09 (Ref:870238)

Quote:

I think that race cars are built to be raced...period...regardless of the builder or the team...

Money plays a role in racing too. But this is why I think the Autocon car will be at the top of the heap for privateers in the ALMS this year. They ran a whole season last year even though they were down on power and have regrouped for a better season this year.

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