What will Williams do? (BMW announcement fallout)

[SRabbit]

I had heard about a week or two ago that Williams had had a 'quiet' chat to Toyota about engine supply.
Given that Webber has said that BMW wont let them use the full rev range in order to keep reliability in check ( thats going well isnt it?? TIC ) and also that the Toyotas were 14km/h quicker down the front chute than Williams at Indy Dr T can keep his bloody engines!

Webber & Button in new liveried Williams with all new aero, now that the windtunnel has been calibrated correctly with some of the best grunt in the field behind the seat.....it's not all bad !!!

[mountainstar]

Sadly this is probably the last and final fall of Williams and I believe they will be gone from F1 within 3 years.

[alesi95]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Sadly this is probably the last and final fall of Williams and I believe they will be gone from F1 within 3 years.

I dont see it.

although id be the first to congratulate you if you were right.

[DKGandBH]

So Williiams will be a "private" team again...
Let's see how Minardi and Jordan cope with that !

DKGandBH

[Adam43]

This had been split from the original BMW buys Sauber announcement thread: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70628

[KE30MAN]

Even if BMW were to supply current engines, I would suggest that there are a number of better options around with regard to power, revs and constitution. I see this as an option for Williams to improve.

[Dani Filth]

it seems i've posted in the wrong thread . so i'll repost it here .
will Williams sign the new Concorde Agreement ??

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

it seems i've posted in the wrong thread . so i'll repost it here .

Not at all, it was jsut time to allows both aspects to be discussed in freedom.

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

will Williams sign the new Concorde Agreement ??

I suspect that little has change in this repsect, even with a potential loss of a manufacturer backed engine. However I may be wrong.

[Trev Campbell]

The press releases seems to be a thinly veiled slagging of the chassis and drivers !!!!! Makes you wonder if the poor performance of this years BMW engine and seeming lack of development is not a coincidence !!!!!!! As at the moment it's the engine that seems to be the weak link in the whole williams package at the moment.

[thejester]

I think they would have to look closely at Cosworth. Buying customer engines from anybody who will have a works team (Toyota, BMW) would be a major disadvantage and see them disappear down the grid.

It would also be a chance for ford to get back in the game without the huge cost of owning a team.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by thejester

I think they would have to look closely at Cosworth. Buying customer engines from anybody who will have a works team (Toyota, BMW) would be a major disadvantage and see them disappear down the grid.

It would also be a chance for ford to get back in the game without the huge cost of owning a team.

It's now been split from Ford and is owned by the guy who runs Champ cars.

Ford seem to be doing very well in Champ cars,as are Bridgestone.

[thejester]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

It's now been split from Ford and is owned by the guy who runs Champ cars.

Ford seem to be doing very well in Champ cars,as are Bridgestone.

Oh, really? Thanks, you really do learn something every day!

I think Williams can be confident in the Cosworth V8, providing they get them working on it ASAP! they will be no doubt behind all the other manufacturers.

[Dixie Flatline]

It's been said elsewhere that Williams and BMW have a supply agreement through to 2009. This will need to be sorted. I don't think Williams is the type of team that will play second fiddle to a full works team, unless they think they can defeat the works team - but that only serves to annoy the manufacturer.

IMO, I think Williams and BMW will cease their partnership at the end of this season, and Williams will use Cosworth engines.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Dixie Flatline

IMO, I think Williams and BMW will cease their partnership at the end of this season, and Williams will use Cosworth engines.

I think so too..

[Snrub]

I think the biggest problem is the money. BMW pumps money into the Williams team. Presumably now this money is gone. Williams will probably now have to pay for engines. This means they will have money taken away from their chasis development. Will their other sponsors stay with the team?

As long as their engine is competitive Williams will be fine. If they had a good customer engine deal and were down 10hp on the competition, it's not going to make or break the team. A near top spec BMW, Honda or Toyota engine would be good enough. A Cosworth might be the best option for performance (and I hope they end up with Cosworth), but Red Bull is paying something like $40M for their engines. That's a lot of money. If Williams could get the engines for free or near free, the extra $40M+ would be better spent on the chasis.

There are some rumours that Hyundai is looking at branding Cosworth engines in the IRL. Perhaps they'd be interested in the same thing, but for F1?

Long term will Williams survive? Does this spell the end of competitive non-manufacturer owned teams?

[Dixie Flatline]

Sauber will no longer need Petronas to pay for its engines from 2006-onwards. If Petronas was willing to stay in Formula One, Williams could do a deal with Petronas to pay for the engines.

[mac]

It's certainly a dilemma - let's look at the supposed four options:

BMW - I think Williams will be glad to see the back of Dr Thiessen as soon as possible. I believe this is a highly unlikely option.

TOYOTA - Would be confined to a role as a secondary player - does Williams want that? Possibility of branding as Lexus, but would Toyota be happy to see a regular Toyota beating a Lexus? Would they be happy seeing a "private" squad beating their factory squad? Imagine the questions coming from Japan.

HONDA - Again, would be confined to a role as a secondary player with all the questions that this poses (as above). Could Frank convince Honda to buy a stake in Williams and run both BAR Honda and Williams Honda equally - possibly with a view to squeezing BAR out down the track? Could Frank convince Honda to sell out of BAR and buy into Williams?

COSWORTH - Would probably have exclusive use of their new V8. How confident can Williams be that this engine would be worth having exclusivity to?

I have no idea what will happen.

[VilleneuveTracy]

How much of a difference is there between customer engines and works engines in terms of quality anyway?

[WebberForWDC]

Williams-Hyundai now that's a good idea!!! People keep talking about non-F1 auto comanies as only VAG and GM, but Hyundai is quite a large company and also indepenent I think, not sure, is this true?

If they were prepared to put up $US100m a year to brand Cosworth engines, they could have a solidly competitive F1 promotional vehicle.

At the very least a funded Williams-Hyundai(cosworth) is BETTER than a customer paying-through-the-nose Williams-Cosworth! Right?

Honestly people keep saying Williams-Cosworth and how great cosworth is, so williams having this top power plant that will allow them to run at the tail end of works teams (11th and 12th) and have "exciting" results like 6th place... People keep saying how "powerful" the cosworth V8 is, so that want Williams to perform like a slightly better Red Bull (so keen are they on Cosworths rather than works engines, even people were keen on (!!!) cosworths as so fantastic even before the BMW announcement) and have these great 7th places as if it's a good thing! Yeah that's a really exciting prospect, not!

Hyundai funded Cosworths are surely a whole lot better than costly Cosworths, that's for sure...

[thejester]

Originally Posted by WebberForWDC

Williams-Hyundai now that's a good idea!!! People keep talking about non-F1 auto comanies as only VAG and GM, but Hyundai is quite a large company and also indepenent I think, not sure, is this true?

If they were prepared to put up $US100m a year to brand Cosworth engines, they could have a solidly competitive F1 promotional vehicle.
.

It would do huge things for Hyundai in terms of brand image. Right now, I think of them as, well, the Lada of S.E. Asia.

[Skam85]

Williams will be Bridgestone shod Cosworth engines with Webber and Button driving for them IMO.

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Williams will be Bridgestone shod Cosworth engines with Webber and Button driving for them IMO.

Brave statement!...Do you really see Sir Frank shelling out for engines AND an expensive new driver!? JYS will have to go back to the RBofS, tartan cap in hand to fund that lot!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Rennen

Brave statement!...Do you really see Sir Frank shelling out for engines AND an expensive new driver!?

new driver- what choice does frank have now other than pick up button's contract. signing him may be the only thing that keeps his list of big time sponsers. you need to spend money to make money!
new tires- if bridgestone pays for the testing why not make the switch, and after indy and the possibility of one tire manufacture, i say take the chance that it will be bridgestone and start testing on their tires immediaitly.
new engine- frank's got the gift of deal making - i would like to see him bring someone new to the table but this might just be the area he is least concerned about.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally Posted by Rennen

Brave statement!...Do you really see Sir Frank shelling out for engines AND an expensive new driver!? JYS will have to go back to the RBofS, tartan cap in hand to fund that lot!

The one thing that will stop the bunsen from going to Williams is the thought of the Ant getting to race for Honda and kicking his arse.

[esorniloc]

Williams have a contract with BMW until the end of 2009, in fact 2005 is the first year of the extension.
If BMW want to break that contract then they are going to have to PAY Williams some money, may even be paying Cosworth to supply the engines for 4 more seasons!