Matos to IPS?

[JohnSSC]

Mods - I couldn't get the link to work - could you insert Team Owner's post (in "IRL News & Notes") regarding Matos signing up for a season of IPS? Since he won Atlantic last season, it was presumed he would be in a CC ride for 2008. Since this impacts both series' it might not be a bad idea to have a thread here where we can discuss the CC side of it.

Thanks

[D.R.T.]

So does this mean the $2 million prize will revert to Perrera? Some stories have Rafa's manager initially trying to (thinking he could) take the money to ALMS or Grand AM, untill a tap on the shoulder came along.

An odd move in my opinion unless the offer from AGR-IPS was a really good one which would be a surprise.

[climb]

I'm not informed about the prize rules: who pays the prize?
Atlantic? Champ car?

Aren't Atlantic anc CC two separate entities?

[mountainstar]

Atlantic was one of the things bought 10 years ago with the CART IPO money.

The whole intention of the prize was to assist you moving up to champcar much like the old Barber Saab/Dodge series with the $100,000 career advancement prize.

The $2 million was never a $2 mil check to run off to the bahamas with or fund an irl ride with.

Atlantic website:

"PRIZE MONEY:
In addition to a share of the $500,000 year-end points fund, the 2007 Atlantic champion will be awarded a unique $2 million bonus designed to help them compete in the 2008 Champ Car World Series. This marks the second consecutive season for the champion’s Champ Car bonus award. Total prize and bonus money for the 2007 Champ Car Atlantic Championship is over $3.7 million, making it among the richest open-wheel development series in North America."

[JohnSSC]

I am not getting the impression that was the case here, mountainstar.

The devil is always in the details. I guess the "unique $2 million bonus" was more unique than we would have thought. Based on what Team Owner related, the actual cash was 20% ot the $2 mill, with the "balance" materializing after the holder of the "Unique Bonus" finds $3.2 million in additional funding.

You can keep the prize, or trade it in for what is behind Door # 2...

[D.R.T.]

Apparently not.

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

The devil is always in the details. I guess the "unique $2 million bonus" was more unique than we would have thought. Based on what Team Owner related, the actual cash was 20% ot the $2 mill, with the "balance" materializing after the holder of the "Unique Bonus" finds $3.2 million in additional funding.

The money was always to help put towards a CC ride as opposed to an open cash prize.

Also Matos' management also thought they had the money to take with them to another category.

[cptkablamo]

I keep seeing things like this (direct from the CCA website)

Featuring an all-new competition package, an infusion of new teams and driving talent and an unprecedented championship bonus designed to ensure that the cream of the Atlantic crop would earn an opportunity in Champ Car, the series flourished as one of the top circuits in all of racing last season.

Now why would you create something to encourage people to CCWS without putting some kind of conditions on it???

[madman16]

The impression i got from the whole thing was that the driver could keep a percentage of the 2 mil (10-20% or something) and the rest was to help fund a CC drive. I can't see the head honchos at CC to allow someone to walk off with just 2 mil let alone the IRL

[JohnSSC]

No question the prize was intended to keep someone in CC. I am not thinking that this was a no strings award.

My point is that the prize was never described as being linked to the driver coming up with almost double that amount in sponsorship in order to get the rest of the money and the ride.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

No question the prize was intended to keep someone in CC. I am not thinking that this was a no strings award.

My point is that the prize was never described as being linked to the driver coming up with almost double that amount in sponsorship in order to get the rest of the money and the ride.

The $2 million isn't enough (it seems) to buy a CC ride, so naturally the driver has to bring additional funds. CC has stopped subsidizing rides.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

The $2 million isn't enough (it seems) to buy a CC ride, so naturally the driver has to bring additional funds. CC has stopped subsidizing rides.

According to CC's prime rumour-monger (AR1), not so much:

Our sources in the Atlantic series are saying that the rumors about Matos going to Andretti Green Racing (AGR) in the IRL's IPS series are correct. Apparently the situation inside Champ Car is such that many of the teams are getting multi-million dollar subsidies in the form of free tires and engine leases from Champ Car. But if they take Matos with his $2 million, they do not get these subsidies... thus, taking less cash from a paying driver like Dan Clarke, added to their subsidies, results in an overall higher dollar figure.

Champ Car wants Matos to drive for Rocketsports, which is a back-of-the-field team, and this one-year deal includes no salary, no travel expenses and all prize money goes to the team. On the other hand, AGR is offering him a 3-year deal, decent salary, test days in the IRL car and the chance to move up in a commercially-viable team that operates in both the IRL and ALMS. You really can't blame Raphael.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

According to CC's prime rumour-monger (AR1), not so much:

I think we all knew that KK was pretty much funding most of the grid

that just confirms what I thought was true

that report does not make champ car look good at all

it is a very sad state of affairs

[coyote9999]

OK I must add my tidbit. I don't believe you have must push or credibility in your statement as must of the CC naysayers here don't like Mark C and find AR1 to be not credible. So now the fact finding make AR1 more credible? I just don't buy it.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

According to CC's prime rumour-monger (AR1), not so much:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson
The $2 million isn't enough (it seems) to buy a CC ride, so naturally the driver has to bring additional funds. CC has stopped subsidizing rides.

According to CC's prime rumour-monger (AR1), not so much:

Quote:
Our sources in the Atlantic series are saying that the rumors about Matos going to Andretti Green Racing (AGR) in the IRL's IPS series are correct. Apparently the situation inside Champ Car is such that many of the teams are getting multi-million dollar subsidies in the form of free tires and engine leases from Champ Car. But if they take Matos with his $2 million, they do not get these subsidies... thus, taking less cash from a paying driver like Dan Clarke, added to their subsidies, results in an overall higher dollar figure.

Champ Car wants Matos to drive for Rocketsports, which is a back-of-the-field team, and this one-year deal includes no salary, no travel expenses and all prize money goes to the team. On the other hand, AGR is offering him a 3-year deal, decent salary, test days in the IRL car and the chance to move up in a commercially-viable team that operates in both the IRL and ALMS. You really can't blame Raphael.

interesting stuff mountain

[racer69]

A pretty laughable state of affairs if that AR1 article is somewhere close to the mark

[luke]

Autoracing1 has zero credibility in terms of substance of rumors found elsewhere..

As for most of the grid being funded, any links or evidence to each driver that was funded last year in CC by KK?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by luke

Autoracing1 has zero credibility in terms of substance of rumors found elsewhere..

As for most of the grid being funded, any links or evidence to each driver that was funded last year in CC by KK?

Yes now we're quoting Mark C as the gospel. Mark C gleans most of his rumors off of forums.

[Alex K]

Get back to earth luke.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by Alex K

Get back to earth luke.

second that

not getting at you luke but take the blinkers off mate

[luke]

Originally Posted by Alex K

Get back to earth luke.

Originally Posted by stradlin21

second that

not getting at you luke but take the blinkers off mate

LOL ?

How am I out of this world or wearing blinkers? For such a big aligation made that most of the grid is run by KK surely it is only right to back it up with links proving this? Therefore surely you are the ones wearing the blinkers or out of this world if you are going to make big aligations with no evidence.

[indycool]

Luke, who do you think is funding it? Do you honestly think that all the teams are footing their own freight? Where are they getting it? Sponsorship and prize money are next-to-nothing. I realize you're a bit removed geographically on how this is working over here but Pook blew $90 million in the final year of CART to keep the series going, a lot of it on team subsidies that were well-stated in CART's public documents. These teams' situations are no better now than they were then. If KK and GF are coming up with free engines and tires as Mark C. said (who knows?), then they OWN Cosworth and they PAID or TRADED a deal with Bridgestone to be able to do it.

Indeed, PKV was in such good financial shape that it took Tristan Gommendy, a pay driver, last year. Forsythe refused initially last season to run a second car unless it was "paid for" and later relented. Petit bought and closed RuSport and joined Forsythe. Gentilozzi is off to the side waiting for money to show up. And these guys OWN the series.

Judging by what's happened lately, it appears that KK is backing away (or meditating with the penguins again) because he hasn't said a word since before the JDSU trial. Forsythe and KK were known to disagree on things and it appears Forsythe is taking more command of this now and KK less command of it. The Cotman resignation points to that. Forsythe was known to favor the ex-SCCA mafia in the office. But time will tell.

[indycool]

The Milwaukee Journal writer brought up another point in this story....what happens to Pagenaud without $ help?

http://blogs.jsonline.com/racing/default.aspx

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by indycool

Luke, who do you think is funding it? Do you honestly think that all the teams are footing their own freight? Where are they getting it? Sponsorship and prize money are next-to-nothing. I realize you're a bit removed geographically on how this is working over here but Pook blew $90 million in the final year of CART to keep the series going, a lot of it on team subsidies that were well-stated in CART's public documents. These teams' situations are no better now than they were then. If KK and GF are coming up with free engines and tires as Mark C. said (who knows?), then they OWN Cosworth and they PAID or TRADED a deal with Bridgestone to be able to do it.

Indeed, PKV was in such good financial shape that it took Tristan Gommendy, a pay driver, last year. Forsythe refused initially last season to run a second car unless it was "paid for" and later relented. Petit bought and closed RuSport and joined Forsythe. Gentilozzi is off to the side waiting for money to show up. And these guys OWN the series.

Judging by what's happened lately, it appears that KK is backing away (or meditating with the penguins again) because he hasn't said a word since before the JDSU trial. Forsythe and KK were known to disagree on things and it appears Forsythe is taking more command of this now and KK less command of it. The Cotman resignation points to that. Forsythe was known to favor the ex-SCCA mafia in the office. But time will tell.

.............indeed, time will tell

Champ Car teams get massive subsidies as was posted and linked in the IRL section somewhere the other day

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

Luke, who do you think is funding it? Do you honestly think that all the teams are footing their own freight? Where are they getting it? Sponsorship and prize money are next-to-nothing. I realize you're a bit removed geographically on how this is working over here but Pook blew $90 million in the final year of CART to keep the series going, a lot of it on team subsidies that were well-stated in CART's public documents. These teams' situations are no better now than they were then. If KK and GF are coming up with free engines and tires as Mark C. said (who knows?), then they OWN Cosworth and they PAID or TRADED a deal with Bridgestone to be able to do it.

Indeed, PKV was in such good financial shape that it took Tristan Gommendy, a pay driver, last year. Forsythe refused initially last season to run a second car unless it was "paid for" and later relented. Petit bought and closed RuSport and joined Forsythe. Gentilozzi is off to the side waiting for money to show up. And these guys OWN the series.

Judging by what's happened lately, it appears that KK is backing away (or meditating with the penguins again) because he hasn't said a word since before the JDSU trial. Forsythe and KK were known to disagree on things and it appears Forsythe is taking more command of this now and KK less command of it. The Cotman resignation points to that. Forsythe was known to favor the ex-SCCA mafia in the office. But time will tell.

I think for champcar to move forward it must embrace all the innovation that once made it great. Right now all open wheel racing is just existing and getting by. There is no forward progress being made by anyone. Do you think the irl is any better?

I have friends in and around the irl and it is not a rosey picture. Sponsors are not lining up to jump in, indy or not. Penske is secure, agr is secure for now, ganassi leachs funding off the nascar operation to pay for the irl team, tony george foots the bill for 2 cars and everyone else is struggling. Hardly a picture of great success after all these years.

I think we need one owner and one leader. I gave Steve Johnson a chance, but I have never liked him. I don't like what he did at the SCCA, especially with rallying.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by luke

LOL ?

How am I out of this world or wearing blinkers? For such a big aligation made that most of the grid is run by KK surely it is only right to back it up with links proving this? Therefore surely you are the ones wearing the blinkers or out of this world if you are going to make big aligations with no evidence.

perhaps you better read some more of this thread mate.....

evidence? I switched on the tv and watched a race mate