[Rules] The FIA - what's occurring there?

[Tourer]

So we have a thread about Liberty and (unless I've missed it) we don't seem to have one about the FIA and the machinations there - so here's my crack at getting one started.

The FIA seems to be an organisation that goes through pretty radical change with a new President - Mosley was clearly very different from Balestre and so was the organisation under his leadership, then Todt came along and there was more change (although not as dramatic as the changes brought in by Mosley). We now have Ben Sulayem and more change appears to be on the menu.

With today's announcement that former executive director Peter Bayer has gone it seems to me that this is another example of change in how the sporting side of the sport is run, at F1 level up till now but it now looks like across a wider plain.

So far we've had an F1 Race Director replaced by multiple RDs and a new structure with more people in it, now we have a person who played a part in developing that gone (and based on all the rumours etc, didn't choose to leave). So does that mean that "back to the future" is really a possibility or do we think that these have been first steps in making some significant changes in how the sport is run?

[porsche962fan]

there should be a new organziation formed to replace the FIA and be done with it

[S griffin]

I don't think we need to replace the FIA, give the new presidency time first

[chillibowl]

his comments from a few days ago, which he is now trying to walk back, doesnt really bode well for the future imo.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...bastian-vettel

part of what he said:

In the interview, which was published on June 3, Ben Sulayem was asked what Formula One should not become.

"Niki Lauda and Alain Prost only cared about driving," he said. "Now, Vettel drives a rainbow bicycle, Lewis is passionate about human rights and Norris addresses mental health. Everybody has the right to think. To me, it is about deciding whether we should impose our believes in something over the sport all the time.

"I am from an Arabian culture. I am international and Muslim. I do not impose my beliefs on other people? No way! Never. If you look at my operation in the UAE: 16 nationalities! Name me one federation that has that many nationalities.

"On top, there are over 34 per cent women and seven religions. And even more Christians than Muslims. I am proud because it creates credibility and merit.

"But do I go and pose my beliefs? No. The rules are there, even now there are issues when it comes to - for example- jewellery, I didn't write that."

imo, while he says he doenst try to impose his beliefs on others, the moment you minimize and dismiss a popular drivers beliefs to just riding 'rainbow bicycle' i would say he is very much expressing his beliefs.

imo he is undermining the very credibility and inclusiveness that the drivers expression of belief has brought to the sport and to their responsible corporate partners.

anyways, looks like the culture wars in F1 is heating up!

[chillibowl]

Seb's awesome!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

his comments from a few days ago, which he is now trying to walk back, doesnt really bode well for the future imo.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...bastian-vettel

part of what he said:

In the interview, which was published on June 3, Ben Sulayem was asked what Formula One should not become.

"Niki Lauda and Alain Prost only cared about driving," he said. "Now, Vettel drives a rainbow bicycle, Lewis is passionate about human rights and Norris addresses mental health. Everybody has the right to think. To me, it is about deciding whether we should impose our believes in something over the sport all the time.

"I am from an Arabian culture. I am international and Muslim. I do not impose my beliefs on other people? No way! Never. If you look at my operation in the UAE: 16 nationalities! Name me one federation that has that many nationalities.

"On top, there are over 34 per cent women and seven religions. And even more Christians than Muslims. I am proud because it creates credibility and merit.

"But do I go and pose my beliefs? No. The rules are there, even now there are issues when it comes to - for example- jewellery, I didn't write that."

imo, while he says he doenst try to impose his beliefs on others, the moment you minimize and dismiss a popular drivers beliefs to just riding 'rainbow bicycle' i would say he is very much expressing his beliefs.

imo he is undermining the very credibility and inclusiveness that the drivers expression of belief has brought to the sport and to their responsible corporate partners.

anyways, looks like the culture wars in F1 is heating up!

He is confusing imposing beliefs, with people being made aware of issues. I don't for one minute believe Vettel, Lewisand Norris's intent is to impose their beliefs on anyone. However, they do wish to convey the importance of certain issues.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He is confusing imposing beliefs, with people being made aware of issues. I don't for one minute believe Vettel, Lewisand Norris's intent is to impose their beliefs on anyone. However, they do wish to convey the importance of certain issues.

indeed. well said!

[greentrumpet]

When something like this pulls the strings of the successor to Balestre, Mosley and Todt you really have to wonder how and why he got the gig£$€
Sorry, punctuation malfunction?

[S griffin]

For too long F1 drivers were accused of being multi millionaires who have no awareness of issues in the real world. So I'm glad we now have people like Seb speaking up about injustices in the world. These people are supposed to be role models. This nothing about imposing beliefs. The fact it seems to have touched a nerve with the new FIA president does make you question if he is the right man for the job

[CarfanLUFC]

"Lewis is passionate about human rights"

Yeah, he should keep those horrific opinions to himself shouldn't he Mr Sulayem.......

Awful from the FIA pres, just awful.

[Tourer]

Bit going on with FIA (so far) this weekend in Austria.

Clearly some disagreement from the drivers with the way that FIA is doing its thing, with Mr Vettel "storming" out of the Drivers Briefing on Friday.

Mr Russel, with what appears to be his GPDA hat on, has said that the FIA should go back to having one Race Director and is currently lacking consistency.

Meanwhile the much vaunted base control room at FIA headquarters didn't see until start of Q3 that Mr Perez had exceeded track limits on his quick run in Q2 & then the Stewards let him run Q3 anyway, before dropping him back to 13th. A decision described by Mr Brundle as harsh (he said that the Stewards agreed with him when he'd spoken to them afterwards) and which meant that Mr Perez used up tyres in Q3 that he didn't need to. Wonder how last year's system, that has been described as "over-stretched" could see and deal with similar issues and this year's highly improved system can't?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Bit going on with FIA (so far) this weekend in Austria.

Clearly some disagreement from the drivers with the way that FIA is doing its thing, with Mr Vettel "storming" out of the Drivers Briefing on Friday.

Mr Russel, with what appears to be his GPDA hat on, has said that the FIA should go back to having one Race Director and is currently lacking consistency.

Meanwhile the much vaunted base control room at FIA headquarters didn't see until start of Q3 that Mr Perez had exceeded track limits on his quick run in Q2 & then the Stewards let him run Q3 anyway, before dropping him back to 13th. A decision described by Mr Brundle as harsh (he said that the Stewards agreed with him when he'd spoken to them afterwards) and which meant that Mr Perez used up tyres in Q3 that he didn't need to. Wonder how last year's system, that has been described as "over-stretched" could see and deal with similar issues and this year's highly improved system can't?

Add to that the top three finishers from Sunday’s race at the Red Bull Ring were summoned by the stewards after it emerged their physios entered parc ferme before they had been weighed, breaching the post-race procedure instructions that had been issued.

The summons cited all three had broken Article 12.2.1.j of the International Sporting Code, which states that an offence will have taken place if there is a “failure to follow the instructions of the relevant officials for the safe and orderly conduct of the Event.”

The stewards opted to hand all three a suspended fine of €10,000.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/le...each/10336404/

Its all a bit over the top. Headmaster's study and all that

[chillibowl]

for me the optics on all this is that the more the drivers speak out, the more they criticize the officials, the more they exhibit any behavior that shows they hold influence over the fans then the more punitive and petty the FIA will be in punishing these minor (and at least once tacitly accepted practices) infractions.

for me this all comes across as an attempt to remind drivers their place.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by E.B

The summons cited all three had broken Article 12.2.1.j of the International Sporting Code, which states that an offence will have taken place if there is a “failure to follow the instructions of the relevant officials for the safe and orderly conduct of the Event.”

The stewards opted to hand all three a suspended fine of €10,000.


Its all a bit over the top. Headmaster's study and all that

For sure there are limits on access to Parc Ferme, as there should be and it does need to be controlled and managed but the way it was handled here was OTT, agree completely.

The thing that stands out to me is that the FIA is able to take the little driver weight scales down into the pitlane after qual and after a sprint race but then don't do that for the Grand Prix, instead keeping the scales in the break room, thus lengthening the time significantly between drivers getting out of their cars and being weighed.

To me that seems like the FIA simply being slack and not on the ball - resulting in suspended fines for drivers - ridiculous really.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Bit going on with FIA (so far) this weekend in Austria.



Meanwhile the much vaunted base control room at FIA headquarters didn't see until start of Q3 that Mr Perez had exceeded track limits on his quick run in Q2 & then the Stewards let him run Q3 anyway, before dropping him back to 13th. A decision described by Mr Brundle as harsh (he said that the Stewards agreed with him when he'd spoken to them afterwards) and which meant that Mr Perez used up tyres in Q3 that he didn't need to. Wonder how last year's system, that has been described as "over-stretched" could see and deal with similar issues and this year's highly improved system can't?

It also meant that Gasly could not get higher up the grid than 10th. I wonder if he drove for another team could it have resulted in further action?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

It also meant that Gasly could not get higher up the grid than 10th. I wonder if he drove for another team could it have resulted in further action?

Quite possibly - we'd likely have heard a LOT more noise about it if Gasly drove for one or two other selected teams. Would still have been noise after the fact though, because the running wide issue wasn't picked up quickly enough. Seems that firstly neither the race directors nor the "bunker" picked up on the transgression, then secondly the stewards decided to look at it after Q3 - both very poor performances.

Meanwhile, the drivers seem to be getting less and less comfortable with the current FIA approach at Grands Prix.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Meanwhile, the drivers seem to be getting less and less comfortable with the current FIA approach at Grands Prix.

I can't say I blame them much. Too much meddling involved atm, penalties for minor things etc. They need to take a step back a bit.

Meanwhile Masi has something to say on his recent FIA departure

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fo...ture/10337501/

[S griffin]

Yes, that was quite a waste of tyres by Checo. I can understand why the stewards made that decision, but it still seems harsh

[Tourer]

Thought I'd share this article about the AFL (Australian Football League) "bunker" and how it works generally.

Be interesting to know more about the FIA version and how it functions and what it does.

[crmalcolm]

Mohammed Ben Sulayem to step back from direct Formula 1 involvement


Motorsport boss Mohammed Ben Sulayem says he will take a step back from direct involvement in Formula 1.

The 61-year-old's move comes after a series of controversies since he became president of governing body the FIA in December 2021.

Ben Sulayem wrote that it had been his "stated objective to be a non-executive president via the recruitment of a team of professional managers".

This step, the Emirati said, "has now largely been completed".



Is this move part of the plan all along, or has Ben Sulayem found that being ringmaster is a bigger challenge than anticipated?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Is this move part of the plan all along, or has Ben Sulayem found that being ringmaster is a bigger challenge than anticipated?

Yeah, I expect it is the latter!

Richard

[Mike Harte]

And he has stirred up quite a few controversies along the way, as well. There's the comments he wrote some time ago, before he was FIA president, that women are not as equal as men, and I don't think that he was just referring to driving, and his current gaffe that drivers need to seek permission from the FIA before making comments about things such as anything political or on human rights, etc.

[chillibowl]

right! he definitely chose all the wrong battles to fight.

have to say though, from what little i know about him, i assume this was a tough admission for him or his office to have had to make so he gets some credit from me for stepping back even if it might have been forced on him.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Is this move part of the plan all along, or has Ben Sulayem found that being ringmaster is a bigger challenge than anticipated?

It might have been planned all along but I suspect that was not the case, given the high profile attendance at so many GPs, the insertion into key photo ops, all the various statements specific to F1.

I think rather that he has come to the realisation of where the real power lies in F1, which is where it has always been (at least since the late 70s anyway) with the commercial rights holder and the teams.

Various clumsy approaches or statements culminated in what he had to say about the value of F1 and I think that was probably the cause of him now stepping back - no doubt after some consultation with FIA lawyers.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

right! he definitely chose all the wrong battles to fight.

have to say though, from what little i know about him, i assume this was a tough admission for him or his office to have had to make so he gets some credit from me for stepping back even if it might have been forced on him.

I agree - very very tough for him personally to step back the way he has and even if he was effectively forced to do so, he deserves some credit for it - we can all be thankful that he didn't take a "Balestre" approach!

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

There's the comments he wrote some time ago, before he was FIA president, that women are not as equal as men, and I don't think that he was just referring to driving, and his current gaffe that drivers need to seek permission from the FIA before making comments about things such as anything political or on human rights, etc.

Just unbelievable. When you think that this instance is involved in many things other than F1. This world is totally crazy.