[Multi 21] f1 is boring. manufactured for tv.

[migliacars]

f1 is boring.
manufactured for tv.
the people who watch it have no idea about real motorsport.
i used to really enjoy it.

it really helps me to sleep though. i think i fell asleep in all of the races.

there is much better motorsport about.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by migliacars

f1 is boring.
manufactured for tv.
the people who watch it have no idea about real motorsport.
i used to really enjoy it.

it really helps me to sleep though. i think i fell asleep in all of the races.

there is much better motorsport about.

Then why are you wasting your time posting here?

[migliacars]

to voice my opinion.

to educated people on f1.


as this is a forum open for everyone

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by migliacars

to voice my opinion.

to educated people on f1.


as this is a forum open for everyone

No your not..The truth is you are trolling ...

[migliacars]

trolling ...???????????????????????????????????????????

[Greem]

Originally Posted by migliacars

it really helps me to sleep though. i think i fell asleep in all of the races.

Sure is an expensive way to travel the world, falling asleep.

Or did you mean you fell asleep in front of your TV?

Note: I stood in the rain for two of the three days at Silverstone (Sunday was dry after 6am), and I agree that there are *equal* forms of Motorsport if you actually get out and watch it, or get involved with it. But not better.

EDIT: it seems you do some UK motorsport, so you might aswell expand on your comments...

[chunder]

Posting an opinion is not trolling, it only gats called it on an F1 forum here!

I agree with some sentiment of F1 being dull in places, some races last year were woefully bad, but that is down to the tracks

I think the level last year went up a notch because of the rules stability and everyone being so equal, until Newey leared how to get round the rules again!

Then it was fairly predictable unfortunately

[JeremySmith]

You should read the original post..

We welcome constructive opinions from everyone, we don't have to agree..

If users are coming here to describe F1 as little more than claptrap, then we take exception because it ruins the thread..

[Jacques Rabbit]

Boring?

If you're into motor racing, and I presume you are by virtue of being here, I have no idea how you could find any season of the fastest closed circuit racing cars traveling the world with some of the finest drivers in their cockpits to be boring.

There's nothing inherently dull, to me, about a competition to see which super-high-performance car can complete the distance the fastest. We're trained to think we need constant overtaking, in part because we're told that, in part because the cars are a bit more restricted these days, in part because TV doesn't capture the speed well (modern technology is nice, but it's actually hurting the broadcast), etc.

But if you really think about it, it can't be boring even if nothing obvious is happening. Every corner someone is taking it to the limit in a car that's unfathomably fast and advanced.

I'll complain about various things in the worlds of F1, NASCAR, sports cars, and other series I follow. Boring? Never a word I'll use to describe a motor race; it'd just be contradictory.

I think we'll have a good season playing witness to the genius of Newey and Red Bull; the rivalry of McLaren and Ferrari; the talents of Vettel and Alonso; and the surprises of Räikkönen's Lotus, Hamilton's Mercedes, or Hülkenberg's Sauber.

They'll be inches away from each other into Melbourne's first turn, inches away from a retirement all around Monaco, and, for one of them, inches away from the highest honor a driver can earn by season's end.

It'd be bad for my eyes to be inches away from the TV, but I certainly won't stray too far from it when the Grand Prix is on.

[migliacars]

dull and boring manufactured for tv only.
drivers cannot say or do what they want. have to be politicly correct. eddie ervine was kicked out for voicing his opinion.

hold on am i trolling again ive been warned about this already from an administrator

bet ill be kicked out soon enough.


f1 is only there for bernie to make money.

ive been involved in club motorsport for ten years now not on a Hugh scale by any means, just as a hobby been competitive so im not some idiot on here with no idea.

i would say if you speak to the drivers in club motorsport, the backbone of it all. and ask them there opinion on f1 they will have similar views to me.

i have good friends who know nothing about Motorsport. but sit there and speak about f1 as if they are running it. they think its great. but when i ask them to come and watch me or help they are washing there hair or cutting there grass.

get involved and see for yourselves what its about.

and i wasnt joking about the sleeping bit. although the last 2 racers were the best this season.


manufactured for the spectators only.... true



DRS that isnt motorsport.
if there is a faster car it means the team car and driver have got it right so they should be in the lead.

think of it this way.

years ago a man called johney herbert in a slower lotus kept the great micheal shumacher behind him in a flying benneton for nearly half the race,he did this by pure driving talent, placing his slower car in the places were he knew the benneton wanted to be lap after lap. what a race what a driver.
nowadays the faster benneton would flip open his flap pull over and pass very boringly down the straight of into the distance, the slower car would stand no chance.
is that what we want to see??????????? no

if the man behind is faster he will pass if not he isnt good enough.
thats how it is.

if i cannot pass a car on the circuit through my own skills why should i have the right to be gifted an easy pass down the straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbC5HhuWU74


we all like close racing but normally there is a runaway leader in all motorsport.

soon it will all be on simulators.

im a hugh lover of exciting Motorsport and f1 could be great again. the cars are to reliant on aerodynamic grip. for better racing mechanical grip is better take some of the downforce from them some how.
free up the regs let engines be free let teams use turbos superchargers v8s v10s v12s, take of the rev limiters and sensors, i wanna see them rods coming out the blocks, smoke all over like they use to be.
cars/engine naturally blow up in Motorsport that's how it is not everyone always finished, engines are very stressed units and on the verge of destruction.

take off the flappy paddles and let the drivers drive the cars.

like this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5hAtpDRl2A

listen to the engine listen to the gearbox look how he is fighting the car, this is driving.
look at the comments on there.

surly no one and argue that this isnt better motorsport.



i wasnt on here trying to start and argument but seems i have.

it is boring now compared to how it was.

who agrees.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by migliacars

if i cannot pass a car on the circuit through my own skills why should i have the right to be gifted an easy pass down the straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbC5HhuWU74

free up the regs let engines be free let teams use turbos superchargers v8s v10s v12s, take of the rev limiters and sensors

Even in the era you obviously preferred (by virtue of the video clip you referred to) the technical regulations were not as relaxed as you propose for F1 in (your ideal) future.

Get a grip - oh, and bye the way, please use a spell checker as your posts are tiresome to read (spell checkers are freely available on-line, included in all word processing package - and even on this humble forum misspellings are hi-lighted!)

[kartincolin]

Originally Posted by migliacars

dull and boring manufactured for tv only.
drivers cannot say or do what they want. have to be politicly correct. eddie ervine was kicked out for voicing his opinion.

hold on am i trolling again ive been warned about this already from an administrator

bet ill be kicked out soon enough.


f1 is only there for bernie to make money.

ive been involved in club motorsport for ten years now not on a Hugh scale by any means, just as a hobby been competitive so im not some idiot on here with no idea.

i would say if you speak to the drivers in club motorsport, the backbone of it all. and ask them there opinion on f1 they will have similar views to me.

i have good friends who know nothing about Motorsport. but sit there and speak about f1 as if they are running it. they think its great. but when i ask them to come and watch me or help they are washing there hair or cutting there grass.

get involved and see for yourselves what its about.

and i wasnt joking about the sleeping bit. although the last 2 racers were the best this season.


manufactured for the spectators only.... true



DRS that isnt motorsport.
if there is a faster car it means the team car and driver have got it right so they should be in the lead.

think of it this way.

years ago a man called johney herbert in a slower lotus kept the great micheal shumacher behind him in a flying benneton for nearly half the race,he did this by pure driving talent, placing his slower car in the places were he knew the benneton wanted to be lap after lap. what a race what a driver.
nowadays the faster benneton would flip open his flap pull over and pass very boringly down the straight of into the distance, the slower car would stand no chance.
is that what we want to see??????????? no

if the man behind is faster he will pass if not he isnt good enough.
thats how it is.

if i cannot pass a car on the circuit through my own skills why should i have the right to be gifted an easy pass down the straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbC5HhuWU74


we all like close racing but normally there is a runaway leader in all motorsport.

soon it will all be on simulators.

im a hugh lover of exciting Motorsport and f1 could be great again. the cars are to reliant on aerodynamic grip. for better racing mechanical grip is better take some of the downforce from them some how.
free up the regs let engines be free let teams use turbos superchargers v8s v10s v12s, take of the rev limiters and sensors, i wanna see them rods coming out the blocks, smoke all over like they use to be.
cars/engine naturally blow up in Motorsport that's how it is not everyone always finished, engines are very stressed units and on the verge of destruction.

take off the flappy paddles and let the drivers drive the cars.

like this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5hAtpDRl2A

listen to the engine listen to the gearbox look how he is fighting the car, this is driving.
look at the comments on there.

surly no one and argue that this isnt better motorsport.



i wasnt on here trying to start and argument but seems i have.

it is boring now compared to how it was.

who agrees.

Your argument seems to be centred on the fact that the majority of people who watch F1 do not actually participate in motorsport themselves. Well, I for one am participating in motorsport (Karting) which is not exactly the pinnacle of motorsport, but you have to start somewhere.

I am a massive fan of F1,and I get the impression that you do not appreciate what driving an F1 car entails and how good the drivers actually are. People who have never attended a grand prix very rarely realise that TV does not do F1 justice. I appreciate that many F1 fans are not in the position to attend a grand prix, but I`m just putting that out there. Admittedly, I feel that DRS is a step in the wrong direction for F1, but it does not mean that the challenge of overtaking has been completely eradicated. Standing at the side of the track at Monza, watching 2 cars battling wheel to wheel at over 210mph, it gives you an appreciation of just how good these drivers are.

You also mention that the drivers are like robots, who are not allowed to say what is on their minds, but this the way that all modern sports are heading, due to the to the way that society has become obsessed with being politically correct.

I`ll leave you with this: If the 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix did not get you excited, then no form of motorsport ever will!

[migliacars]

Originally Posted by kartincolin

Your argument seems to be centred on the fact that the majority of people who watch F1 do not actually participate in motorsport themselves. Well, I for one am participating in motorsport (Karting) which is not exactly the pinnacle of motorsport, but you have to start somewhere.

I am a massive fan of F1,and I get the impression that you do not appreciate what driving an F1 car entails and how good the drivers actually are. People who have never attended a grand prix very rarely realise that TV does not do F1 justice. I appreciate that many F1 fans are not in the position to attend a grand prix, but I`m just putting that out there. Admittedly, I feel that DRS is a step in the wrong direction for F1, but it does not mean that the challenge of overtaking has been completely eradicated. Standing at the side of the track at Monza, watching 2 cars battling wheel to wheel at over 210mph, it gives you an appreciation of just how good these drivers are.


You also mention that the drivers are like robots, who are not allowed to say what is on their minds, but this the way that all modern sports are heading, due to the to the way that society has become obsessed with being politically correct.

I`ll leave you with this: If the 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix did not get you excited, then no form of motorsport ever will!

Not true at all.
There are plenty of motor sports that I enjoy.
I get excited every time we race.
I can appreciate there skills in an f1 car. I do not have there abilities. But did not state that.

My comments are true.

Why are some of you so angry?
Insulting my grammar and spelling isn’t anything to do with the thread. im sure everyone on the earth has some faults and makes mistakes.
Do you think I should not be allowed to post on here for that reason? Or have I hit a nerve.

[mythoughtsareracing]

Weird. The QUOTE button seems to be malfunctioning....

Originally Posted by migliacars

Not true at all.
There are plenty of motor sports that I enjoy.
I get excited every time we race.
I can appreciate there skills in an f1 car. I do not have there abilities. But did not state that.

My comments are true.

No, your posts are your opinion. There is no truth in an opinion, only perspective.

Why are some of you so angry?
Insulting my grammar and spelling isn’t anything to do with the thread. im sure everyone on the earth has some faults and makes mistakes.
Do you think I should not be allowed to post on here for that reason? Or have I hit a nerve.

Your spelling and grammar influence how others view your knowledge about any given topic and lend themselves to judgmental treatment.
It's not so much anger as it is annoyance, as most forum users try to articulate their thoughts clearly.

I will not disagree that F1 is manufactured for television.
All major motorsports series are these days. There is big money to be made with television rights, sponsorships, advertising and so on. Some races can make money from sponsorships and the like even with grandstands that are only half full.

Like it or not, racing is one more form of entertainment. The majority of people watch races to be entertained. That includes you and I, migliacars.
The goal of any entertainment "product" (I hate that word, but it fits in this discussion) is to keep people entertained to the point where they want more.
So committees sit down and discuss what makes a motorsport series entertaining. 99 times out of 100 it boils down to one thing: vehicles driving fast and passing one another on-track.
All of the "advancements" in F1 are aimed at achieving that singular goal: creating more on-track overtaking.

I can't say I'm a fan of DRS, but it certainly helps achieve that goal.
The same with KERS.
The tire compounds that Pirelli chooses for each race also help achieve that goal.
Sure, it's speculation, but try to imagine what the 2012 season would have been like without these elements (or gimmicks, if you prefer). Many of the passes would never have happened. Think about the penultimate race in Austin when Hamilton got around Vettel for the win. He was only able to make that pass because of DRS.
It was one exciting moment in that race. There many others in every other F1 race, as well, the vast majority were opportunities created by one of the artificial aids injected into the series specifically for that purpose.

The logic flows thusly:
Overtaking makes for exciting races.
Exciting races make for satisfied viewers (either on TV or in person).
Satisfied viewers watch more races.
More viewers means more advertising can be sold.
More advertising means more money for the top level.
More money at the top level means the racing series soldiers on.

Yes, Virginia, top-level motorsport is a business, and business is about profit.
Long gone are the days when a privateer with insane amount of talent and ability can get in a car and perform.
Race drivers are bred from a young age to excel. They are starting to get into karting or quarter-midgets or junior dragsters about the time they start kindergarten. I expect in the not-too-distant future, there will be racers born with specific genetics modified to reduce fear, sharpen eyesight and reduce reaction times.

Despite all this, I enjoy F1. I am a fan. I feel fortunate to have been able to attend my first F1 race this year (USGP in Austin), and am still reveling in it.
I like to think I'm able to look past all the made-for-television gimmickery and the political shenanigans from the rich elites that run the series and the teams and enjoy the sound of the engines, the smell of rubber and race fuel and watch cars being pushed to their limits by drivers with talent and skill I could only dream of.

F1 is made for TV? That benefits me, as I watch most races on TV, just like most fans.
Welcome to the new age of big-league racing, my friends.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by mythoughtsareracing

I will not disagree that F1 is manufactured for television.
All major motorsports series are these days. There is big money to be made with television rights, sponsorships, advertising and so on. Some races can make money from sponsorships and the like even with grandstands that are only half full.

Like it or not, racing is one more form of entertainment. The majority of people watch races to be entertained. That includes you and I, migliacars.
The goal of any entertainment "product" (I hate that word, but it fits in this discussion) is to keep people entertained to the point where they want more.
So committees sit down and discuss what makes a motorsport series entertaining. 99 times out of 100 it boils down to one thing: vehicles driving fast and passing one another on-track.

Sadly, this is the truth. I call it Bernievision, and it has caused me to be a former F1 fan. The technical rules are so strict there is very little room for innovation, and if somebody does come up with a new twist, they ban it. I didn't see a single race this year because the stuff that attracted me to the sport is gone, and I'm left pining for what was.

Originally Posted by mythoughtsareracing

All of the "advancements" in F1 are aimed at achieving that singular goal: creating more on-track overtaking.

They are trying to legislate the cars to be as equal as possible, for manufactured excitement, but that means they can't get past each other, so they invent gimmicks to allow passing.

Alternatively, they could open the rules up a lot (using fuel limits to control speeds for safety), and different teams would pursue different innovations, causing the cars to have different performance envelopes, and two cars that had the same lap time could actually race each other because they would each be strong in different parts of the track.

But, that opens a risk that one team could win by a half a lap, or more than a lap, like they did sometimes in the old days, and a lot of people would find that unexciting, and they wouldn't really care about the technical innovations that created that situation.

The money screwed-up professional auto racing.

[GT-Driver]

Honestly I have to agree with All of you!!!! Yes F1 is the essence of motorsport, with the best of the best drivers. Just see how tine the lap time difference is!! On the other hand recently with all these extra-refined F1 cars it has gone little dull but not boring. But again the new cars and the new refinment brings much more safety. Those skinny-type F1you are talking about with stick shifter and no-power steering and assisted pedals and the car vibrates like hell are no where near safe as the new modern bulky extra smooth F1 cars we see today. So safety has to be given the priority. I think in all motorsport there will be some races that are more action and spirit packed than others, it just depends.

[Peralta]

Originally Posted by migliacars

dull and boring manufactured for tv only.
drivers cannot say or do what they want. have to be politicly correct. eddie ervine was kicked out for voicing his opinion.

hold on am i trolling again ive been warned about this already from an administrator

bet ill be kicked out soon enough.


f1 is only there for bernie to make money.

ive been involved in club motorsport for ten years now not on a Hugh scale by any means, just as a hobby been competitive so im not some idiot on here with no idea.

i would say if you speak to the drivers in club motorsport, the backbone of it all. and ask them there opinion on f1 they will have similar views to me.

i have good friends who know nothing about Motorsport. but sit there and speak about f1 as if they are running it. they think its great. but when i ask them to come and watch me or help they are washing there hair or cutting there grass.

get involved and see for yourselves what its about.

and i wasnt joking about the sleeping bit. although the last 2 racers were the best this season.


manufactured for the spectators only.... true



DRS that isnt motorsport.
if there is a faster car it means the team car and driver have got it right so they should be in the lead.

think of it this way.

years ago a man called johney herbert in a slower lotus kept the great micheal shumacher behind him in a flying benneton for nearly half the race,he did this by pure driving talent, placing his slower car in the places were he knew the benneton wanted to be lap after lap. what a race what a driver.
nowadays the faster benneton would flip open his flap pull over and pass very boringly down the straight of into the distance, the slower car would stand no chance.
is that what we want to see??????????? no

if the man behind is faster he will pass if not he isnt good enough.
thats how it is.

if i cannot pass a car on the circuit through my own skills why should i have the right to be gifted an easy pass down the straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbC5HhuWU74


we all like close racing but normally there is a runaway leader in all motorsport.

soon it will all be on simulators.

im a hugh lover of exciting Motorsport and f1 could be great again. the cars are to reliant on aerodynamic grip. for better racing mechanical grip is better take some of the downforce from them some how.
free up the regs let engines be free let teams use turbos superchargers v8s v10s v12s, take of the rev limiters and sensors, i wanna see them rods coming out the blocks, smoke all over like they use to be.
cars/engine naturally blow up in Motorsport that's how it is not everyone always finished, engines are very stressed units and on the verge of destruction.

take off the flappy paddles and let the drivers drive the cars.

like this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5hAtpDRl2A

listen to the engine listen to the gearbox look how he is fighting the car, this is driving.
look at the comments on there.

surly no one and argue that this isnt better motorsport.



i wasnt on here trying to start and argument but seems i have.

it is boring now compared to how it was.

who agrees.

You know there is such a thing as vintage F1 racing

[migliacars]

and one more thing.
get some good commentators please. couthard could talk a glass eye to sleep.

no one but no one can say that murry didnt make it exciting.

just the sound of his voice on old youtube clips make me smile.

[nicanary]

I thought I was the cynical one, but this guy takes the biscuit. You're not forced to watch it, mate.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

I'll agree with this guy on one thing (even though this is getting miles off the original topic, but ah well).

I do not find the modern Formula One cars as interesting or exciting as the older ones. Recently, I was watching Racing Legends on BBC (as I suspect a few on this forum would've been doing) and couldn't help but feel the hairs on the back of my neck stand up whenever there was footage of the times when Moss and Stewart were racing. Those cars WERE exciting. They all fitted to the same regulations, but were fundamentally different, aesthetically and mechanically too.

I just wish we could get back to those sorts of times. The regulations these days are FAR too restrictive. Look at the innovations that have been banned in the last few years. Double diffusers, exhaust blown diffusers, f-ducts, the ride height system, double DRS...it seems whenever Newey or whoever comes up with something genuinely innovative, it gets banned. Why?! Why don't we just have them racing in GP2 cars if that's how it is going to be?

It also pains me to see how cars have gradually become heavier, and slower, and yes, perhaps easier to drive too. You look at lap times from year to year, and they're progressively getting slower and slower. Most lap records for the older tracks are from from 2003-2005. That's depressing to me as a fan. I don't want to believe that I've already seen the time where F1 cars are at their fastest in my life time. But it is rather worrying.

Again, you look back to the cars that Moss or Stewart drove, and the speed and performance they were capable of by the standards of the day were mind blowing. These days, whilst Formula One cars are still quick, they're not as spectacular in that area in my opinion, particularly when as I've already said, cars are being slowed down, engine size has been decreased from V10 and V12s to soon V6s etc.

There's the argument for moving with the times, yes, but I also want to see exciting Formula One cars again. I became interested in motorsport through my love of cars, not drivers...

[nicanary]

It's the circuits that are slower, not the cars.

They're still exciting machinery, but no one team is ever allowed an advantage, in the interests of close racing. And that is fundamentally wrong.

It's manipulation, something I'm totally against. All too late to complain, now that F1 is "owned", rather than simply another class of motor sport.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by nicanary

They're still exciting machinery, but no one team is ever allowed an advantage

Surely Red Bull had more of an 'advantage' than HRT?

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Surely Red Bull had more of an 'advantage' than HRT?

Yep. They had wings, in more ways than one. I was suggesting that the leading teams, with all the dosh and the best designers, are not allowed to have an edge, in the interests of entertainment.

The likes of HRT just had no dosh, full stop. They were never in the position of having an advantage. I'm confusing myself now......

[chunder]

THe problem is that even if you managed to find a way of taking the wings away, there would still be ways of finding the grip, either through better tyres, suspension systems etc.

Who could possibly imagine that any modern car could ever beat the laptime of a 1000hp turbo car on qualifying tyres with super sticky rubber, but they were quicker in days!
Just like WRC, the Dela 4x4 was quicker on test stages in Italy than a Rallye 037 very soon after it was initially developed and quicker than an S4 within 6 months.

Modern cars are built for modern tracks though, I cant imagine a modern F1 car coping too well with Buenos Aires as it was, or Interlagos or placxes like Dallas or Detroit.

I wish DRS and Kers were gone too, but if that is a way to try and promote passing then I dont mind too much, and to be honest if you have ever played a racing sim, trying to use it and not mess it up is harder than you might imagine, so I have great repsect for these guys who are doing all this, driving, talking on radio, racing, watching tyre temps, messing with settings.

Its a different world, maybe not better or worse, but different.

My faith in F1 has been restored by Pirelli, and a few other things, the days of Bridgestone developing a tyre for one driver are gone and Michelin too.

If only MotoGP would just stop being so pathetic and people like Honda and Yamaha realise that their sport is going down the drain, and would have already been drowned were ot not for one man!

[Adam43]

Thread split as it was ruining another topic.