How to solve the Indycar/Champ Car situation, letter published on Kirby's website

[johntt]

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no110.html

Shows how it should be; replace biodiesel with bioethanol (closer to the methanol that Indycar used) and it would be sorted.

Plus don't go to Brands, FRenault cars can't overtake on the Indy circuit. I was at both the Brands and Rockingham events and Rockingham was way better.

[TIMELORD]

That article is spot on! It was the variety of courses that made the old Indycar World Series such a thorough test of driver skill. A lot of great ideas.. I hope someone sits up and takes notice in the US.

It would be great to see a revitalised Indycar Series back at Rockingham. It's such a waste of an oval without them.

[Fogelhund]

Interesting viewpoint, though many of the details are simply unrealistic at this point. We all wish for a single series (fans, teams, drivers, organizers, owners, sponsors....), but few can agree on what the details would be (and most importantly, the owners of both series haven't been able to agree yet).

[Craig]

Imagine if the bull**** hadn't happened. Imagine. Think where the series would be these days. For gods sake, can't someone make the idiots in charge of these two series realise what they're doing?

[luke]

The thing is yet again KK is being very quiet over the off season. so can any gains be made? All of Champ Car's fans, sponsors, and employees need to be reassured at this rate it doesn't look like there will be a series. The way things look that is. Come on KK, say something, do something, for the sake of CC!

[Denosaur]

I recently saw a program which featured Tony George in it. And from that, plus reading the article, if he stop being such an $%#& retentive stuck up $%@% then things would be different. And that's my opinion based on comments made by him in connection to the Indy circuit.

As for KK and crew, well at least there trying, but I wish they think before they do anything.....

[mountainstar]

Ever since the irl was officially announced in 1994, people to this day continue to put out great ideas, fantasy schedules, et. al, but it is tony george who has held everything back with his unconditional surrender terms. Remember the amigos, especially Mr. Kalkoven have negotiated several times with tg to no avail. Tg I believe from his actions will allow open wheel racing to burn to the ground & doesn't give a damn, as long as he has total control.

Until the day comes when he goes back to running the speedway and stops playing dr. mengele with open wheel racing, is the day when all these great ideas can blossom into something great.

The ultimate irony is, assuming champcar disappears, when tg has total control, he also has total responsibility and I seriously doubt he will do anything to advance the sport. There will be no one else to blame when it all grinds to a halt.

I am still optimistic that open wheel can rise again. Not everyone wants Nascar. I believe a series that embraces all the innovation and diversity that made it great years ago can be popular again.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I believe a series that embraces all the innovation and diversity that made it great years ago can be popular again.

Yeah, it's called the American Le Mans Series.

Chris

[fomoco]

One problem with any move on a united OW series. TG. how come his great statement we will never race on tracks etc, When Teams and others tried to broker a united dseries, it was TG, the stumbling block. The only way there will be a single OW series is if Tony turns up his toes.
USA's answer to Uncle Bernie E. - I will control everything

[Kieran20]

Originally Posted by fomoco

One problem with any move on a united OW series. TG. how come his great statement we will never race on tracks etc, When Teams and others tried to broker a united dseries, it was TG, the stumbling block. The only way there will be a single OW series is if Tony turns up his toes.
USA's answer to Uncle Bernie E. - I will control everything

unfortunateley your rant about Tony George gets nobody nowhere. the only sensible thing is for both series to merge, become the indy car series once again like it was in 1995 and before. the grid of teams and drivers would be awesome, and it would be big news in the states, that would bring it alot of attention towards it, which would probably make it quite sucessful again, and we would all have a great series to wtahc, instead of two series fighting it out, killing each other.

i would prefer however not to see the IRL cars, as they are dangerous, ugly, and do not perform. i dont think however we should see the DP01 either, as it doesnt look suited for oval racing, maybe on road corses, but i also thing that if there was a merge we should go back to the real indy cars of the time, and bring in a new updated indy car.

Chassis makers can then get invloved from then on, eg lola, dallara, raynard and so on.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Kieran20

unfortunateley your rant about Tony George gets nobody nowhere. the only sensible thing is for both series to merge, become the indy car series once again like it was in 1995 and before. the grid of teams and drivers would be awesome, and it would be big news in the states, that would bring it alot of attention towards it, which would probably make it quite sucessful again, and we would all have a great series to wtahc, instead of two series fighting it out, killing each other.

One must know the problem before fixing it. In regards to a strong single series, if one examines history, one finds the person in the middle of the whole mess is tony george.

I think it's going to take more than just a merge and everything will be dandy again. Using the irl model for business, if it worked they would be way down the road and quite successful and all this merge talk would be nonexistent.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by Kieran20

unfortunateley your rant about Tony George gets nobody nowhere. the only sensible thing is for both series to merge, become the indy car series once again like it was in 1995 and before. the grid of teams and drivers would be awesome, and it would be big news in the states, that would bring it alot of attention towards it, which would probably make it quite sucessful again, and we would all have a great series to wtahc, instead of two series fighting it out, killing each other.

i would prefer however not to see the IRL cars, as they are dangerous, ugly, and do not perform. i dont think however we should see the DP01 either, as it doesnt look suited for oval racing, maybe on road corses, but i also thing that if there was a merge we should go back to the real indy cars of the time, and bring in a new updated indy car.

Chassis makers can then get invloved from then on, eg lola, dallara, raynard and so on.

Kerian I agree with you, but can the USA based fans put enough presure on one person to accept this? He wants to control everithing.
Bring back CART the way it was. Take it to the world instead of Bernis circus. If it is a World series, then there are more places than North America. Here hope of a unified O/W series

[Dutton]

As far as I am concerned, NASCAR is primed to delve into the OW world: it is just biding its time.

This provides all the more reason to pray something, somewhere, somehow, keeps something going out of the CC/IRL scenario.

I don't have anything against NASCAR, per say: I just do not appreciate total hegemony in any capacity.

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by Dutton

As far as I am concerned, NASCAR is primed to delve into the OW world: it is just biding its time.

This provides all the more reason to pray something, somewhere, somehow, keeps something going out of the CC/IRL scenario.

I don't have anything against NASCAR, per say: I just do not appreciate total hegemony in any capacity.

Hmmm, you could just about imagine a kind of low-cost 'Formula 5000' stockblock based series with Grand-Am DP engines, couldn't you?

There's even some competitive American engines in there...

[f1manoz]

Interesting article, and the overall point is an excellent one, but any type of merger, I believe, simply won't happen.

But, to be fair, the article was balanced and argued the case well.

[Mystery]

Great article. My wish is that a "merger" doesn't have to involve one series folding but with every bad news story about CC I fear that will be the case.

[champcarman]

So why don't we all petition the IRL and Champ Car websites so they really know what we, the fans, really want.

[Mystery]

Because unless the powers that be are blind or stupid then they already know. The problem seems to be now that everyone concerned feels they need to survive on their own terms without being seen to capitulate.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Mystery

Because unless the powers that be are blind or stupid then they already know. The problem seems to be now that everyone concerned feels they need to survive on their own terms without being seen to capitulate.

Agreed!

A page right out of the "Planning for Failure Manual" if there ever was one...

[motofan]

dont no if you guys have already heard this but didnt the chief of indy car approach all of the champ car teams and offer them money for a car and an engine and what not for one full racing year aswell as offering to use 4 tracks in the IRL if the champ car teams chose to merge with IRL

[motofan]

if you havnt heard it i have it on good authority tha tthis happened

[climb]

Good points in gordon's feature, but some weaknesses as well:
1- the wished merger he fancies is just IRL capitulating and declaring that what comes from CC is the best under every point of view (chassis, int'l attitude etc)
2- he sees the new series as the sum of the best points he sees on both sides (actually on one sole side), whereas the new subject should, IMHO, sort something new: new chassis, new engine/s, new tracks etc
3- As any passionate fan, he listens to his heart more than to his brains: he nostalgically wishes a return to the multi engine/chassis formula, basically because "in their golden age Cart were like this" but you cannot build the future trying to get the past forward. Those were years when the team could enjoy budget absolutely unimaginable todays: that's why monomake series have become the standard.

[Mystery]

But have monomake series become the standard??

One makes
GP2 (Asia), CCWS, IRL, A1, WSR

Multi-makes
F1, (A)LMS, Grand Am, F3, Touring Cars, GTs, F Nippon, Nascar (sort of)

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by Mystery

But have monomake series become the standard??

One makes
GP2 (Asia), CCWS, IRL, A1, WSR

Multi-makes
F1, (A)LMS, Grand Am, F3, Touring Cars, GTs, F Nippon, Nascar (sort of)

F3 is de-facto one-make. If you don't have a Dallara-Merc you might as well stay home.

FNippon is control-chassis, free engine, isn't it?

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Pete Fenelon

F3 is de-facto one-make. If you don't have a Dallara-Merc you might as well stay home.

FNippon is control-chassis, free engine, isn't it?

Theres still quite a few different chassis makers in FFord, and VW are supplying engines in F3 this year so that should help diversify things a bit.

Lola did try and enter F3 and break the Dallara monopoly a few years ago a didn't get very far.