The interestingly pedantic DIESEL thread

Lusitano · 6 Jul 2007, 21:09 (Ref:1956558)

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimangler

Petrol looks (no smoke) smells (no smoke) and sounds a million times better than diesel.
Wanna hear a diesel?
Go to a bus station. Leave the racing to the real engines.

What??? You sound like the only Diesel-powered vehicle you have been in contact with is a Freightliner carrying groceries to your local Shop-Rite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

Maybe so but I dont go to a race track to have to have comfortable ears - I go for the sight, sound and smells of real racing cars.

Beautifully put!!!

I am what some might call an "oil-head", but in terms of noise, pardon, in terms of melody, I like both types, just because they are different! Imagine if an orchestra was made up of only one instrument! Pretty dull, I would say! It is essential to have both sounds in a fine concert, in this case the concert being Le mans!

The Badger · 6 Jul 2007, 22:55 (Ref:1956599)

Its not essential to have diesel's ..... its a reletivly new concept in motorsport , and sounds like crap ..... I would sooner see another 2 GT2 cars on the grid than 2 Audi diesel's !!!

HORNDAWG · 7 Jul 2007, 06:19 (Ref:1956682)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Its not essential to have diesel's ..... its a reletivly new concept in motorsport , and sounds like crap ..... I would sooner see another 2 GT2 cars on the grid than 2 Audi diesel's !!!

If you consider 1930 relatively new!

L.P.

The Badger · 7 Jul 2007, 15:39 (Ref:1956934)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

If you consider 1930 relatively new!

L.P.

1930 ..... i thought somebody would be pedantic about what i said .... BMW did win the Nurburgring with a touring car back in the 90's ..... and Audi in 2006 & 2007

I suppose 3 times in 76 years is common to you then ?

HORNDAWG · 7 Jul 2007, 16:07 (Ref:1956951)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

1930 ..... i thought somebody would be pedantic about what i said .... BMW did win the Nurburgring with a touring car back in the 90's ..... and Audi in 2006 & 2007

I suppose 3 times in 76 years is common to you then ?

Pedantic, that is funny...

Quote:

its a reletivly new concept in motorsport

translates into "common"?!!

L.P.

And to answer your question; No, it is not. But that is not what was put forth in the original post!

henk4 · 7 Jul 2007, 06:51 (Ref:1956693)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Its not essential to have diesel's ..... its a reletivly new concept in motorsport , and sounds like crap ..... I would sooner see another 2 GT2 cars on the grid than 2 Audi diesel's !!!

Your open approach to new concepts is astonishing, I suppose if you (and this forum) had been around in the sixties you would have condemned the Rover and the Howmet for lack of noise also...

The Badger · 7 Jul 2007, 15:43 (Ref:1956936)

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

Your open approach to new concepts is astonishing, I suppose if you (and this forum) had been around in the sixties you would have condemned the Rover and the Howmet for lack of noise also...

I was pointing out that diesel is not essential ..... not that it isnt a technology or a concept .....

When did we have a diesel in Group C ? And that is one of the most successful sportscar championships ever .

So , my point still stands , diesel is not essential .

I dont want to hijack this thread , so im off !

isynge · 8 Jul 2007, 00:07 (Ref:1957221)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

When did we have a diesel in Group C ? And that is one of the most successful sportscar championships ever .

Before we get too dewey eyed about Group C it's worth having a look back at how it was seen at the time - headlines damning races like Le Mans in 1985 as "Porsche economy runs" abounded, and by the end the whole thing was profoundly depressing.

Did we see diesels in Group C? No, you're absolutely right, we didn't, but we did see an awful lot of samey looking 956/962s. If Porsche hadn't had a customer programme I suspect the mid-1980s would have looked an awful lot like the rather uninspiring mid 1970s...

In short, the 956/962 was as dominating as the R10/908 - if it had been kept as the preserve of the factory the 1980s would have faced problems (and the works Porsche outfit won more times than it lost). We're now in a situation where dominant cars exist, and this should be an area for concern.

Valker · 8 Jul 2007, 11:26 (Ref:1957483)

IMO diesel racers' sound and smell are just fine.

henk4 · 8 Jul 2007, 11:09 (Ref:1957471)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

I was pointing out that diesel is not essential ..... not that it isnt a technology or a concept .....

When did we have a diesel in Group C ? And that is one of the most successful sportscar championships ever .

So , my point still stands , diesel is not essential .

so is motorsport

**Adam43** · 7 Jul 2007, 18:30 (Ref:1957033)

previous posts split from Le Mans Series 2007 thread

The previous thread was obviously stifling this discussion on diesels. As such we now have a new diesels in Le Mans based series racing thread.

Thanks

chewymonster · 7 Jul 2007, 21:21 (Ref:1957138)

The "new" diesel is quiet (no clatter), clean, efficient, and powerful. This is exactly what people want from cars that they buy.

And it has done pretty well at the races lately.

**Aysedasi** · 7 Jul 2007, 21:49 (Ref:1957147)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewymonster

This is exactly what people want from cars that they buy

But I'm not buying an LM Prototype........ (nice though the idea is).

**Adam43** · 7 Jul 2007, 22:15 (Ref:1957166)

I'm currently looking to buy a racing car, and my criteria don't quite coincide with that!

**Aysedasi** · 7 Jul 2007, 22:26 (Ref:1957176)

Oh dear, that spoils the (rather weak) joke in your new thread......

**Adam43** · 7 Jul 2007, 22:33 (Ref:1957179)

Actually, I wonder whether losing a roof is more fundamental to me than using the wrong fuel.

Although maybe this is a little off topic

bdwoody · 7 Jul 2007, 22:46 (Ref:1957193)

have yous tried the audi tdi diesel 2.0 it aint no BMC TAXI and it goes like stink in standard form and even better with a tweek, dont knock it till you've tried it !

chewymonster · 8 Jul 2007, 03:41 (Ref:1957255)

The diesel only really began its life in 1989 when Audi invented TDI (direct injection for diesels) So it makes sense that you wouldn't see racing diesels in the 1990-90s. Audi made a diesel race car when the technology has allowed for one.

KA · 8 Jul 2007, 07:48 (Ref:1957330)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewymonster

The diesel only really began its life in 1989 when Audi invented TDI (direct injection for diesels) So it makes sense that you wouldn't see racing diesels in the 1990-90s. Audi made a diesel race car when the technology has allowed for one.

the SUCCESSFUL diesel may have only really began it's life when Audi invented TDI, but the first diesels at Le Mans were as far back as 1949-51, the Delettrez and MAP.... think the ACO were offering some kind of award for a successful finish by a diesel-engined car?

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_47662-D...ef0a880ff5ba32

henk4 · 8 Jul 2007, 08:50 (Ref:1957349)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewymonster

The diesel only really began its life in 1989 when Audi invented TDI (direct injection for diesels) So it makes sense that you wouldn't see racing diesels in the 1990-90s. Audi made a diesel race car when the technology has allowed for one.

I think the real breakthrough came when Bosch invented the Common Rail technology, first applied by Fiat, and now finally replacing VAG's original pump-jet system. (The R10 has a common rail engine)

Audi did not "invent" direct injection, it has been generally applied in various marine engines, while also the Ford Transit from the eighties had one (at a time when noise control of direct injection was difficult to control). If I am not mistaken VM in Italy also experimented with direct injection diesels.

GTfour · 8 Jul 2007, 11:04 (Ref:1957468)

Any which way you turn it,the more dieselpowered racecars in the field,the less spectators there'll be.
Spectators simply don't come to see "the spectacle" of superefficient and ultraquit barges gliding by.
And again,I'd like to see what would hapen if the tech rules would be equaled for the diesel and petrol cars. So that 'd meen 5,5L petrol turbo engines.

henk4 · 8 Jul 2007, 11:07 (Ref:1957470)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTfour

Any which way you turn it,the more dieselpowered racecars in the field,the less spectators there'll be.
Spectators simply don't come to see "the spectacle" of superefficient and ultraquit barges gliding by.

of course you are able to support such claims by statistic evidence based on a large sample....

GTfour · 8 Jul 2007, 11:19 (Ref:1957478)

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

of course you are able to support such claims by statistic evidence based on a large sample....

Absolutly no need to. Just use one's ears and listen to 99% of all people's comments when first introduced to these boring cars.

GTfour · 8 Jul 2007, 11:11 (Ref:1957474)

When sitting at our grandstand this year at LM (Dunlop) there was a right old loud cheer from many people when the first Audi crashed. Nope,these oilburners have been made to sterile. All drama has been taken away and so logically they're not really loved by the majority of the fans.

henk4 · 8 Jul 2007, 11:14 (Ref:1957475)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTfour

When sitting at our grandstand this year at LM (Dunlop) there was a right old loud cheer from many people when the first Audi crashed.

You were there and still you missed the reason why the French people cheered when an Audi crashed out? Probably the petrol cars turned you deaf and blind

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