Cadwell HSCC

[coppice]

Any meeting at this lovely circuit is a pleasure but having booked a weekend there for the HSCC event I am a little disappointed. The entry varies from adequate to pathetic (Guards Trophy ) and I remain bemused that, not very long ago, there were so many FF1600s that two heats and a final were in order but not any more . I see shedloads of Lotus Cortinas , Mustangs etc in CSCC (etc) but not here .

Is it the club , the circuit or something else ? Is it deemed a bit 'below stairs' to race at a smaller (but far nicer) track than the bigger names like Silverstone ? Competition from other events (ok , coronation this year) or the fact that some find driving across Lincolnshire a bind ?

[kipper]

I think it is a combination of reasons. Cadwell, by reason of its location, doesn't appeal to some people due to the perceived distance. Similarly, some drivers are deterred from racing there due to its more 'old-school' nature.

However, this event has not been helped by its scheduling: it falls a couple of weeks after the HSCC meeting at Snetterton; and a couple of weeks before the HSCC is at Silverstone, with Donington not much afterwards. This means that for the Historic/70s Roadsports drivers half of their season is condensed into a little over two months. This scheduling means that some championships won't be appearing at Cadwell (e.g. Historic/Classic FF1600s).

I think this is combined with a number of championships having less rounds that previous seasons. For example, there are 12 Historic FF1600 championship races this season (over six meetings). In 2015 (chosen as I have the dates to hand), there were 17 championship rounds (with some single headers). This means that some events now miss out on certain championships.

Also, several Formula Junior drivers will be at Hockenheim this weekend for the opening rounds of the Lurani Trophy - this particularly explains the relative lack of 'rear-engined' cars relative to the reasonably healthy 'front-engined' grid.

Aside from that, Historic Touring Car grids have typically been falling for a couple of years outside of Silverstone/Brands. This, combined with some ill-conceived allcomers races, have lead to to the somewhat disappointing events.

[Plantagenet]

I race in classic formula ford, and we weren't scheduled to race here (unlike historic FF) for the reasons given - it is really very close to the Silverstone GP meeting.
Could the coronation also be a factor?

Regarding Guards, I can't speak to it personally but they are some of, if not the most, expensive cars in HSCC and that trend has been increasing over the past few years....and cadwell is not a forgiving track if you have an off. Maybe others here can say if this true, or hopeless speculation on my part.....

[gary396]

Originally Posted by coppice

Any meeting at this lovely circuit is a pleasure but having booked a weekend there for the HSCC event I am a little disappointed. The entry varies from adequate to pathetic (Guards Trophy ) and I remain bemused that, not very long ago, there were so many FF1600s that two heats and a final were in order but not any more . I see shedloads of Lotus Cortinas , Mustangs etc in CSCC (etc) but not here .

Is it the club , the circuit or something else ? Is it deemed a bit 'below stairs' to race at a smaller (but far nicer) track than the bigger names like Silverstone ? Competition from other events (ok , coronation this year) or the fact that some find driving across Lincolnshire a bind ?

Not just me then. I had a look at this one, thinking I might have a trundle down for it but having looked at the programme I did think it appears to be a bit 'muted' compared to what has gone before.

I always thought that Cadwell was a 'big draw' to the historic racing community (fantastic circuit etc) so I can't see that putting them off - maybe scheduling as you suggest?

[justracing]

I had fully intended travelling up for the weekend as I love Cadwell Park but have decided to cancel principally because of the entries, it's real hike for me which I willingly undertake but this one's not for me, I'll have to put up with some banger racing at Brands!

[Paul D]

I think Cadwell does have a reputation for being unforgiving of mistakes, and it is narrow and definitely 'old school'. For many - me included - that's part of the attraction, but I think it makes others a little wary of racing there. You do need to be reasonably self-confident to go quick there, it's not a circuit that rewards the tentative.

My own personal experience, having been 'off' at many of the corners over the years, is that it's not as bad as many may think. Yes, for sure there's not much margin for error up over the mountain and through Hall Bends, round to Barn - but this section only accounts for about a fifth of the lap, the remainder of it being fairly open with reasonable run-off.

I've had a tyre blow as I hit the brakes at the fastest point on the lap, I've been off at the Gooseneck when being a bit optimistic about how fast I could take it, as well as the left hander at Mansfield at the bottom of the hill after Gooseneck. I've even gone off backwards over the top of the mountain, and got it wrong through Hall Bends, as well as spinning exiting the hairpin (not all on the same lap I hasten to add!). And through all this, the only time I actually hit anything solid enough to cause any damage to speak of was the off through Hall Bends during a qualy session - and even this wasn't bad enough to stop me getting it repaired in time to go out in the race and win the class!

So, to those who've never tried it, I say give it a try. It's a real driver's circuit and if you enjoy a challenge, you'll undoubtedly get a kick out of it!

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Paul D

I think Cadwell does have a reputation for being unforgiving of mistakes, and it is narrow and definitely 'old school'. For many - me included - that's part of the attraction, but I think it makes others a little wary of racing there. You do need to be reasonably self-confident to go quick there, it's not a circuit that rewards the tentative.

My own personal experience, having been 'off' at many of the corners over the years, is that it's not as bad as many may think. Yes, for sure there's not much margin for error up over the mountain and through Hall Bends, round to Barn - but this section only accounts for about a fifth of the lap, the remainder of it being fairly open with reasonable run-off.

I've had a tyre blow as I hit the brakes at the fastest point on the lap, I've been off at the Gooseneck when being a bit optimistic about how fast I could take it, as well as the left hander at Mansfield at the bottom of the hill after Gooseneck. I've even gone off backwards over the top of the mountain, and got it wrong through Hall Bends, as well as spinning exiting the hairpin (not all on the same lap I hasten to add!). And through all this, the only time I actually hit anything solid enough to cause any damage to speak of was the off through Hall Bends during a qualy session - and even this wasn't bad enough to stop me getting it repaired in time to go out in the race and win the class!

So, to those who've never tried it, I say give it a try. It's a real driver's circuit and if you enjoy a challenge, you'll undoubtedly get a kick out of it!

Totally agree . Very much a drivers circuit rather than just having the fastest car .
But I might be a bit biased as I was overall circuit champion there once , [ many years ago ].
It does take a fair bit of learning as in some places you have to aim off the circuit to be on the right line for when you come over the brow into the bend .

[Lancsbreaker]

I remember the off over the top of the mountain......I nearly crashed myself watching you in my mirror.......


I do like Cadwell, despite it being the only circuit to ever make me car-sick as a driver - I think it was the combination of the vertical surge over the mountain immediately followed by the right / left of Hall Bends and the braking for the over 90 right that got to me....

[coppice]

I made a friend throw up within two laps in my Seven at Cadwell. Oddly enough his wife just wanted me to go faster and faster ..

Quiet at the back .

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by coppice

Oddly enough his wife just wanted me to go faster and faster…

Women……

[Peter Mallett]

I've had a win or two there but also a big crash at Park when I ran out of brakes. Gooseneck is the most difficult section IMO.

[Tim Barry]

Loved the one race I did there in my F5000!

[The Fat Clerk]

Scary

[coppice]

Originally Posted by Tim Barry

Loved the one race I did there in my F5000!

Really? So what about the 2 litre limit on single seaters which was in place in the 70s and as far as I know still applies ?

[kipper]

Originally Posted by coppice

Really? So what about the 2 litre limit on single seaters which was in place in the 70s and as far as I know still applies ?

The 'two-litre' limit does still apply and, as you know, has been in place for decades. However, there are very occasional instances where larger capacity cars have been given permission to race. I think these are typically when there has been a couple of 'bigger' cars racing alongside a grid of sub two litre cars.

[Tim Barry]

Originally Posted by coppice

Really? So what about the 2 litre limit on single seaters which was in place in the 70s and as far as I know still applies ?

That was in place in 1986 but we entered as the entry form just said "Formula Libre" with no restrictions mentioned! We did ask the club and they said it was fine so we prepared and made the long journey up there. Although there was some talk about 2-litres at scrutineering we were allowed to race. Although there was a man with a noise-meter hiding in the bushes at the Mountain and also on the start straight who presented us with a "Too Loud" notice after practice. Which we were then told to ignore!!

Pity the car didn't run cleanly on all 6-cylinders but we still won the class and were second overall on aggregate.

[coppice]

I left Cadwell feeling disappointed , as this once great meeting was a profound disappointment . No FF1600 , the perfect car for Cadwell, three decent grids only (FF200 and Saloons /Sports )and some cynically thin grids. Red flag and safety car managed to ruin Sunday FF2000 .

Once there was a real sense of occasion and now it just feels flat . A single commentator who could talk a race but did not have anything to say about the cars - as witness his attempt at (Singer) Chamois - he had obviously never even heard of the word . Five years ago we had enough FF1600s to have two heats and a final, we had post race interviews , two commentators and Marcus Pye's erudition .

Time is never wasted at such a lovely place but this really was a shadow of what it was .

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by coppice

I left Cadwell feeling disappointed , as this once great meeting was a profound disappointment . No FF1600 , the perfect car for Cadwell, three decent grids only (FF200 and Saloons /Sports )and some cynically thin grids. Red flag and safety car managed to ruin Sunday FF2000 .

Once there was a real sense of occasion and now it just feels flat . A single commentator who could talk a race but did not have anything to say about the cars - as witness his attempt at (Singer) Chamois - he had obviously never even heard of the word . Five years ago we had enough FF1600s to have two heats and a final, we had post race interviews , two commentators and Marcus Pye's erudition .

Time is never wasted at such a lovely place but this really was a shadow of what it was .

Agree wholeheartedly with you although I enjoyed the spectacle of the Superkarts. I've only attended two meetings so far this season the other being Donington Masters which had a dreadful entry so not having much luck!

The next potential disaster is the last weekend in May with the Masters at Brands clashing with the HSCC Silverstone GP circuit International Trophy....

[saaben]

I've been visiting Cadwell since the mid 1970's and marshalled in the '80s & '90s. It's basically a motorcycle circuit and there only used to be approx six car meetings a season.
When a national car racing series had a date there quite a few drivers would give it a miss.Shame really, a lovely setting to spend a day watching motorsport.
So low entries are nothing new at Cadwell.

[Peter Mallett]

Were you running a 3400 GA?

[Tim Barry]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Were you running a 3400 GA?

Yes. in our March 76A.

[Peter Mallett]

I recall either Ian Ashley or David Purley running one of those in period.

[Tim Barry]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I recall either Ian Ashley or David Purley running one of those in period.

David Purley (Chevron B30), Alan Jones, Tom Walkinshaw and Val Musetti (Marches of varying '75 vintage) all ran them but not Ian.

[GCCheddaris]

Originally Posted by Tim Barry

David Purley (Chevron B30), Alan Jones, Tom Walkinshaw and Val Musetti (Marches of varying '75 vintage) all ran them but not Ian.

I think the first GA engined Formula 5000 was Tom Walkinshaw's Modus in 1974.

[Peter Mallett]

Thanks. You're giving me ideas for a dig around in the attic for my Thruxton programmes from '75 and '76.