Who, what, where & when thread.

Mike Bell · 11 Jan 2009, 15:33 (Ref:2369420)

These photos are from an album of my late Fathers. I've scanned them myself so quality may not be that good! They were all on the same page so I am assuming are the same date and event. I have no idea if they are pre or post WW2, and although cars 14 & 16 are recogniseable, anyone fill in all the rest- including which chassis 14 & 16 are? I have some more of another event which I will post on another thread if this attempt is successful!

Steve Wilkinson · 11 Jan 2009, 17:24 (Ref:2369475)

The where is easy - Donington Park

The what - Photos 1,2 & 3 are ERAs.

I'll leave the really hard bit for later!

**Adam43** · 11 Jan 2009, 17:48 (Ref:2369496)

Donington makes it pre-war.

The 1936 GP had fourERAs in it:
#8 Whitehead
#14 Briault
#15 Tongue
#16 A Dobson
See this summary: http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gp366.htm#37
Photo 1 is of #14
Photo 2 is of #16 and the garage confirms the name.

However the garage numbers in 1 don't tally with photo 1.
If it is '36 then #2 is Cholmondley-Tapper's Maserati and #18(?) is Bira's Maserati.

However I am sure someone who actually knows something can confirm/deny and fill in all the details.

Mike Bell · 11 Jan 2009, 18:33 (Ref:2369525)

Thanks Steve & Adam. Donington pre-war makes sense as Dad was studying at Loughborough and if it is 1936 he would have been 18, which sounds right. Oh, and sorry, no extra points for working out they are ERAs Steve!

Cheers, Mike

jamesholland · 12 Jan 2009, 12:53 (Ref:2369906)

The pictures are not from the 1936 Donington Grand Prix, though I can't say which event they are from. I would suggest that 1938 is the correct year however.

ERA number 14 looks like R3A to me which was Charlie Martin's car. I am by no means sure.

ERA number 16 is a works C Type which would make it either R4C (later D) or R12C (later sold to Prince Chula and named Hanuman). I would plump for the former which would make it Mays' car.

The tail shot of a car going away is of one of the works Twin Cam Austins. It looks like it is going up the hill having left the Melbourne hairpin which presumably dates it as 1938 as the loop wasn't used until the Tourist Trophy in September 1937.

Car number 2 is definitely not a Maserati 8CM. I can't identify it and I'm confused by the right hand side exhaust.

Car 18 is another ERA, whose I don't know.

Mike Bell · 12 Jan 2009, 08:01 (Ref:2369755)

These photos were together in another album, so again I assume taken at the same time & place. Any info welcome!

Philip Venables · 12 Jan 2009, 09:43 (Ref:2369804)

These are post war, the first photo is of Connaught A-type, suspect the next 2 may be V16 BRM, possibly at Boreham, 1954?

Philip Venables · 12 Jan 2009, 09:46 (Ref:2369805)

NEXT PHOTO IS bUGATTI T-35 OR 51, THEN lOTUS 6, DONT KNOW THE NEXT, AND LAST IS EARLY cOOPER bRISTOL, POSSIBLY aNTONY cROOK

jamesholland · 12 Jan 2009, 13:04 (Ref:2369910)

Definitely not Boreham in 1954 as it a) closed after the 1952 season and b) the circuit layout was very different - there were no slow corners marked by oil drums. It was a very fast circuit, similar to the Silverstone Grand Prix circuit.

I think the venue might well be Silverstone but for a sprint meeting which leads me to think the photos of the BRM V16 are from a different meeting.

The Bugatti is Sarginson's T35T (2.3 litres unblown).

Lotus Mk VI

The next photo I would suggest is of a Buckler 90 and the last looks like one of the F2 Frazer Nashes converted to a sports car - it looks very like the ex Ken Wharton car.

FastDB2s · 21 Jan 2009, 08:03 (Ref:2375843)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Venables

NEXT PHOTO IS bUGATTI T-35 OR 51, THEN lOTUS 6, DONT KNOW THE NEXT, AND LAST IS EARLY cOOPER bRISTOL, POSSIBLY aNTONY cROOK

The one between the Lotus & the Cooper is a Lister Bristol, I have just reread Powered By Jaguar & its in there, if I could just work out the Reg no properly I might work out who's car.

Mike Bell · 21 Jan 2009, 08:30 (Ref:2375867)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

The one between the Lotus & the Cooper is a Lister Bristol, I have just reread Powered By Jaguar & its in there, if I could just work out the Reg no properly I might work out who's car.

The regn no of the car between the Lotus V1 and Frazer Nash (confirmed) is MER 303 (issued 1954) and initial thoughts are that is is a Buckler. Happy to have confirmation either way!

Regards, Mike

Farbrooke · 12 Jan 2009, 15:31 (Ref:2369976)

I think they come from two venues - bottom 4 on an airfield and if as you said before your father was at Loughborough then picture 2 of that group could be Wymeswold airfield just outside Loughborough - also all the cars in airfield shots have number plates - some sort of club sprint

Mike Bell · 12 Jan 2009, 15:52 (Ref:2369993)

Thanks for the replies, guys. As it was after the war (V16 BRM obviously) Dad was then resident in Norfolk. Did the BRM ever race at Snetterton? The other shots certainly could be a sprint, and as the Lotus first appeared in 1952 could be Snett as well?

Thanks, Mike

Farbrooke · 12 Jan 2009, 15:58 (Ref:2370000)

Mike - if your father was in norflok by then I am wrong - you might try eastern counties motor Club who were formed in 1950 and ran sprints etc and used many of the local airfields

Roger Clark · 13 Jan 2009, 09:48 (Ref:2370461)

I think this is the Mark II V16 which suggests Snetterton April 24 1954.

Mike Bell · 13 Jan 2009, 19:08 (Ref:2370815)

Thanks for that, Roger. Looking at other pics elsewhere it does seem to be a Mk2 and Snetterton is possible because with young family and being a farmer Dad didn't travel very far. I am wondering if the Connaught 'A' type was at the same meeting? This following pic shows the family transport in '54 , which could explain the pic of No 12! (Photo not taken in front of our family home!)-

Farbrooke · 13 Jan 2009, 20:03 (Ref:2370854)

Mike - There is a thread on Fersfield Circuit / airfield on here that you should perhaps read - may solve the location of the lower pictures

Roger Clark · 15 Jan 2009, 09:47 (Ref:2371858)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Thanks for that, Roger. Looking at other pics elsewhere it does seem to be a Mk2 and Snetterton is possible because with young family and being a farmer Dad didn't travel very far. I am wondering if the Connaught 'A' type was at the same meeting?

If the Connaught is from the same meeting it's probably either Leslie Marr or Charles Boulton. I don't have a full list of starters but they are the only Connaughts mentioned in race reports. There is an article about Marr in the current (February) issue of Motor Sport and a full page picture of him at the previous week's Goodwood meeting. I don't think it is the same car, so this is probably Boulton's.

Philip Venables · 14 Jan 2009, 20:51 (Ref:2371585)

Out of interest, the Connaught sportscar is currently owner by Duncan Rabagliati, and despite being very original, went surprisingly well at Goodwood, 2008

Mike Bell · 15 Jan 2009, 06:11 (Ref:2371774)

Hi Philip- not quite Duncan's car! The original 4 L2s were registered MPH329, MPH995, MPH996 & MPH998. Sadly the last, 'ours', is the only one missing now. Duncan has been trying to find it for years without success. This is his car at Revival 2008-

Ted Walker · 21 Jan 2009, 09:06 (Ref:2375896)

The 6th photo is Archie Scott Brown in the Lister MG

FastDB2s · 21 Jan 2009, 21:31 (Ref:2376401)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

The 6th photo is Archie Scott Brown in the Lister MG

Yep, chassis no. BHL1 - 1953 1.2ltr MG 4 cyl Lister- MG with Wakefield body, believed broken up, reg no then went on
chassis no. BHL1 (2nd version I suppose) - 1956 2ltr 6 cyl Lister-Maserati, engine from a from A6GCS now in States (or was in 2005)

Both cars driven by Archie Scott Brown as they were works cars.
Interestingly the Lister-Maserati only netted Archie 3 first places.
A quote from Doug Nye's book 'Powered by Jaguar'
'Don Moore: When the car was first completed Archie was pleased as punch & decided he'd drive it down to Snetterton for testing on the road. He hadn't gone far before the engine got itself in a terrible mess. When I pulled it all apart I found that where the oil filter mesh had been soldered into the filter body, somebody had allowed the solder to spread across the mesh itself, halving the oil flow & leaving no feed at all to the top of the engine.
After a major rebuild I ran it up on the brake & decided to whip-off the cam covers to see how much oil there was up there -- & there were the brand new camshafts actaully wearing away before my eyes! They hadn't been hardened at the factory; they were so soft you could file them.'

Good book that, seem's like they had problems from new - same as James Martin's car in the Miile Miglia years ago & possibly now.

Mike Bell · 22 Jan 2009, 05:47 (Ref:2376573)

That's wonderful- Archie was an early hero of mine (still is) and I know we watched him race at Snetterton. Must read 'Archie & the Listers' and improve my knowledge of the great man! And as for the cars themselves, my lottery win would be heading the way of a Costin bodied version very quickly......

Thanks all for your help with the pics.

D-Type · 25 Jan 2009, 22:28 (Ref:2379202)

If you haven't yet read Archie and the Listers you absolutely must do so. It is brilliantly evocative of the era and far far more than a "Next week they went to Silverstone ..." -style biography.

**Adam43** · 12 Jan 2009, 19:43 (Ref:2370143)

The numbers don't match in the 1938 race: http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gp386.htm#33
ERAs are #19 (Dobson), #15 (Connell), #18 (Cotton). Again the Maserati don't match.
If it was the '38 GP, surely there would be a Auto Union or Mercedes-Benz?

1937 GP doesn't match completely either.

However there are the JCC 200 miles races?

As I said before, I know nothing.