Two Things

[Crash Test]

1. Reading in MN today that they want to bring VS body shells into the Commodore Cup. FFS! What a crock!! We already have Future/Auscar/New Millenium/Bathurst/Junior/Procar Tourers, Saloon Cars, the Konica Series, Improved Production etc. I hope somebody pulls their head in before it falls off...

2. Something a bit more positive, apparently a model car manufacturer is bringing out a heap of V8 BRute models... that'd be interesting!

[wishbone]

Avesco Need a Market for all of the VS's out there ans commodore cup would be a good place.

Problem is Avesco dosn't conrol the commodroe cup.

With the Konica cars i belive needing to updated to VT or AU Shells for next year, and no other body shells are allowed.the main V8 players are going to the new body shapes for next year as well, so avesco have set it up so that the koinca boys have to buy all of the current cars. and as a result will have cars that can't be raced except in the Sports Sedans

[RaceTime]

Somebody correct me but I thought the idea of Konica's was for cars with outdated body shells from the main stream races?

[Flaggie]

It is, Racey. As I understood it the VS Commy's gone for next season, on an eligibity level. Hence all Holdens will be Vt's or VX's. I had been led to believe the EL was still ok for Konica 2003, though, but it was verboten for 2004.

As for Commy Cup, yep, that's right. Unsure whether this is a CAMS initiative, or whether it's coming from the Association their selves. Given CAMS wanting to try and nix HQ's and Vees, and generally modernise classes, I'd tend to think there may be some pressure from that way.

[RaceTime]

Well they have well and truly lost out on Formula Vee - they announced recently that the 1600cc motor is eligible for F/Vee from next year - in fact we have allocated lap records for both 1192 and 1600cc motors at Wakefield.

[Seton_5]

Yeah from what i've read No VS for the Konica's beyond 2002 or 2003 but they on the way out Also the EL falcoon out too. Commodore Cup would be a great place for all the VS's to run around in

[The Tool Man]

I think the Model Car manufacturer is Southern Model Supplies who also do the Classic Carlectable Range

[Airhead]

Surely the thing with the feeder formulae, is the consistency of the regulations. So that if I wanted to race HQ's or Commodore Cup I could buy a car drive it around for two seasons, get a more affluent sponsor into Konica Series and sell my car to the next hopeful.

This is hard to do if it is suddenly outdated.

[Airhead]

My next thought is, for the better financed teams, why not pull the good mechanicals out of the car. The bits that are replaced with race miles, then scrap the rest.

How many good VS and EL race cars are there left now?

[Crash Test]

Errrm, I'd hate to see a Supercar VS in the Commodore Cup... what do you do with them? Turn them all into drive school cars?

FVee- apparently that PR re-1600cc engines went off a bit half cocked... I don't think there are too many happy people around the place, except for NSW...

[RaceTime]

Maybe but a decision has been made and announced - now it's up to the FVee Assoc's to do something positive instead of whinging all the time.

[Crash Test]

What can they do to get back those competitors who have already decided that they've had a gutfull? For a lot of competitors, FVee is a very cost affective way of going racing, but not too many people are looking forward to spending all of this money etc for not much gain...

[RaceTime]

However aren't you forgetting one thing? The fact that the engines they are currently using are becoming harder and more expensive to maintain because they are no longer readily available...

[Crash Test]

There's that too, but Joe blow who gets 4 years out of an engine won't be too happy. Despite all of the fors and againsts, this idea was only supposed to be implemented in NSW, where they are much more pro-1600 than elsewhere. Besides, why does CAMS want to kill FVee? Maybe if they rebadged the cars Commodores or Falcons they might be a chance?

[Flaggie]

A Supercar couldnt run in the Commy Cup anyway. Commy Cup have 4.2 Litres and a controlled suspension package, aero and gearbox. you could score an ex supercar shell maybe, caged and ready to go and make a Commy Cup car out of it.

As for 1600 Vees. Victoria are unlikely to have anyone running them next year anyway.

And who's idea was it to come up with a HQ class with 253's and disc brakes???

[RaceTime]

Crash - I think the point lately has been that the engines, whilst previously lasting 4 years, now weren't and, when ready for rebuilds, were starting to become horrendously expensive IF parts were available.

[sevi]

Sorry to disagree Crashy, but AFAIK the VS is still eligable for next season in the Konica's.

[racer69]

I think the VS is only banned from the 'main' series (what else can we call it), does the same apply for the EL?

[Crash Test]

Sevi- I won't disagree with you there, just going by what the above folk have said

Flaggie- HQs- hrrmmmm, that's another 'don't go there' subject... that upset a lot of people at the Power Tour meeting up here earlier in the year...

RT- I won't disagree with you there, talking to some old timers, one of whom got 5 years out of an engine, but there was a guy running around who blew an engine at most race meetings...

[Elwood]

Originally posted by AMoffat
Surely the thing with the feeder formulae, is the consistency of the regulations. So that if I wanted to race HQ's or Commodore Cup I could buy a car drive it around for two seasons.....This is hard to do if it is suddenly outdated.

The Commodore Cup rules have been virtually the same (other than a few necessary changes along the way to solve problems as they arose...eg gearbox durability etc.) since 1994.... I think that could be defined as fairly consistent.

At the AGM of the Commodore Racing Association in Melbourne last night the competitors agreed in principle to moving forward with the body update, subject to CAMS approval (they are fronting CAMS with the proposal next week) and also to the update cost being acceptable once they finish building the prototype car.

And nothing's being "suddenly outdated" - the VR's are due to be eligible from Jan 2004, and at this stage the current VB-VH models will be eligible to run until the end of 2006, with that to be extended year by year if there are still sufficient cars running - with no fixed expiry date on that arrangement.

The basis of the update is to replace ONLY the body shell and any components that "just won't fit". The big ticket stuff will all be carried over - such as engine, gearbox, diff, fuel cell etc.

Just on the VS Supercar idea - no go... the Supercars run the a full trailing arm rear end and bar-work which far exceeds what is permitted for Commodore Cup. The Commodore Cup shell is fairly close to standard (ie. suspension pickup points etc) with no bar-work permitted outside the cockpit. Assume that this will still be the case for the VS.

The stated reason for the update was both in response to CAMS' attitude to 'ageing' classes in recent years, and also to sponsor & competitor supoort/pressure for a freshen-up....the class will be 10 years old by the time the new cars hit the track.