Tony in trouble

[ptclaus98]

Tony Stewart may be in big trouble if tonights rumors about him running a driver over at a sprint car race are true.

[gomick]

Tony Stewart, WTF... There is no way his career can go on, under yellow & he does that - pathetic & sad!
RIP Kevin Ward Jnr...

[garcon]

A polite warning from the mods:

DO NOT POST A VIDEO OF THE INCIDENT.

Please read the relevant section of the FAQ, here: http://tentenths.com/forum/faq.php?f..._rules_content

[Paradise City]

Senseless - and it could easily be two other drivers, on a different day, in a different series. You need penalties to be applied if a driver returns to the track or gesticulates to a driver whilst himself on the track. I'm by no means a nanny-state person but a targetted reg or two might be in order here. And if you are at the wheel you need to be vigilant, not reckless. Particularly in a sport where there's contact a plenty, a marooned driver boiling and coming over is what happens. A man w/o a car whilst you're in one, is never a target to intimidate. RIP Ward.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I'm by no means a nanny-state person but a targetted reg or two might be in order here.

The rules are in place, but it's the consistency of their enforcement that is called into question. I don't follow sprint racing but I assume walking onto the track while the race is on is forbidden, even if it is under yellow. The first thing that came to my mind was a BES race where Mucke approached Westbrook to give him a mouthful (both in-car), only to accidentally swipe him and write both cars off. The original recommendation was that his licence should be revoked, but no lasting damage was done so Mucke got a slap on the wrist. It's easy to say that had there been injury Mucke would have been stripped of his licence, but that should have happened regardless of the outcome. It's the intent that we want to get rid of because otherwise this will happen again.

I'm not a big follower of American series apart from TUSC/PWC, but from an outsider's perspective on-track altercations seem to be played up as part of the "spice" of the event (and not just in NASCAR might I add). Stewart in particular has had his fair share of outbursts that even I've seen in promos and highlights. While I don't want to speculate on Tony's actions, I think what tranpsired last night would have been much less likely if the helmet/glove-throwing and window-grabbing were given multiple race suspensions. I do realize there's an element of "alpha male" hot-headedness that will never go away, but at the very least drivers need to be made aware how serious venturing onto a not-empty track is. Ward took his life in his own hands when he went to remonstrate with Stewart, this much we can unfortunately be certain of.

As I don't know the cars very well, do they have throttle telemetry? Even though that wouldn't be conclusive (direct drive, different rear tyre sizes, sliding on dirt, etc.) it would help piece together the sequence of events.

Regardless of where the blame is to be apportioned, this is utterly horrific and my sympathies go to all involved, especially the Ward family - RIP Kevin Ward. I hope this incident goes some way towards curbing the foolhardy attitude we see far too often in motorsports.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I'm surprised that he's even going to try and race today. If I were NASCAR brass I'd encourage him to sit this one out based on his mental and emotional state. You can't be involved in a fatal accident like that and it not bother you. Even sitting out out of respect of Ward would be a good call on Smoke's end.

I'd go as far as pressuring him not to race, not only for the sponsor fallout/fan response/respect for the Ward family but for his own state of mind. He can't be holding up well having just been involved in a driver fatality. Wouldn't the investigators want him to sit the race out as well so they can speak to him again?

[Accident]

I don't think it's wise to treat the video footage as something clear cut, because it isn't... It doesn't show the lead up to the contact to see the angle he was approaching from and such to see if he indeed move up, and people saying they can hear him hit the gas to accelerate... there are how many cars on a small dirt track? And his car isn't even on screen at the time you hear the acceleration I assume many people are talking about, to see if the car does indeed accelerate.

One thing to keep in mind with sprint cars is that visibility is not great. A slick clay track is shiny with lights shining down on it, it was under a yellow meaning that most of the safety vehicles have their bright lights flashing, drivers are often looking through several layers of tear offs and/or dirty visors, and the right panel of the wing hangs much lower than the left side, and (while it doesn't look to be the case on Tony's car) some of them still run unpainted on the inside of the wing panels and those reflect all the flashing safety lights off the wing itself. He would have had to have been watching for a driver in a dark colored suit to his right (where the low hanging wing is) while also watching the recovery trucks approaching (and the guy on his fourwheeler approaching from the infield on his left) and watching what the other cars are doing.

I'm not saying whether or not he meant to scare the guy or anything, as we will never really know, but there are a lot of factors, and a tight dirt track at night in a sprint car isn't the same as far as visibility and space goes compared to most road courses and the like.

Regardless of the why/how, what happened is a massive shame that will scar both Stewart's career and the history of the small track (and possibly the town if it's anything like some of the small town tracks we have around here).

Thoughts go out to the Ward family.

Originally Posted by J Jay

As I don't know the cars very well, do they have throttle telemetry? Even though that wouldn't be conclusive (direct drive, different rear tyre sizes, sliding on dirt, etc.) it would help piece together the sequence of events.

Nothing like that, much too advanced (and therefore expensive) for this kind of stuff.

[canamman]

What a shocking start to what was going to be a glorious day at the Glen.
I have watched the video several times and I still cant believe it.
A lot of bad decisions that came together at the same time.

Cant help but thinking about when Tony threw his helmet at Kennseth's
car and how many young racers he set an example for.

Its time for some new universal rules with drivers doing these sorts of retaliation in the race groove it appears.

I hope Tony decides to sit todays race out away from the Glen. He may want to go seek out that drivers family and see if he can be of any help.
They should hear Tony's side of the story from him. They may or may not
receive him warmly.

[chernaudi]

Even if Tony comes out of this good on the legal end, this will probably push him down the road to retirement as an active driver. He's already had the broken leg and this will probably haunt him mentally and emotionally for a while.

I'm surprised that he's even going to try and race today. If I were NASCAR brass I'd encourage him to sit this one out based on his mental and emotional state. You can't be involved in a fatal accident like that and it not bother you. Even sitting out out of respect of Ward would be a good call on Smoke's end.

[Salamus]

I think some of you are over-reacting just a little bit. We still don't know exactly what happened (the video doesn't answer every question).

One aspect that most are forgetting is the inadequate lighting on the track. It was dark on that part of the track. Ward was wearing a black firesuit. I wouldn't be surprised if Tony didn't see him until the last possible second. Maybe he tried to swerve but instead lost control of the car and hit Ward. If you look at the video, the car in front of Tony BARELY missed Ward. And he had to swerve out of the way too.

But again, we don't know exactly what happened. Just a bunch of speculation right now until the police finish their investigation.

[Paradise City]

I've seen the footage. The video is obscure, it's darkish and it's actually unclear from the footage whether Stewart even saw him. From my untrained eye, he was off course but his speed seemed unabated which suggests he was surprised and could only swerve. In otherwords, on-site investigation is needed here.

[Nicholosophy]

Regardless of the outcome of any investigation, drivers and officials need to start taking this stuff seriously. Hefty penalties should be given to any driver (or other nutjob) who enters the track and puts themselves into harms way. Same for any driver who recklessly tries to endanger the life of another driver.

One death is one too many.

[chernaudi]

Police are investigating, and I'd have to say to wait on their word before taking anything as gospel.

I'm a moderator at Motorsport Mayhem and Watkins Glen is my first race serving as a mod at that site, so I know that I might have to take some names there.

But anyways, we don't really have a clear picture of what actually happened yet. Only the investigators know what has happened, or are at least trying to piece together what happened, and, not to sound snotty, I'd trust their word more than people who are speculating on what happened who don't have the full picture.

I'd say give the benefit of the doubt until final word of the investigation comes out.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Tyler Graves, a sprint-car racer and friend of Ward's, told Sporting News in a phone interview that he was sitting in the Turn 1 grandstands and saw everything.
"Tony pinched him into the frontstretch wall, a racing thing," Graves said. "The right rear tire went down, he spun on the exit of (Turn) 2. They threw the caution and everything was toned down. Kevin got out of his car. �?� He was throwing his arms up all over the place at Tony for most of the corner.
"I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle. When you hit a throttle on a sprint car, the car sets sideways. It set sideways, the right rear tire hit Kevin, Kevin was sucked underneath and was stuck under it for a second or two and then it threw him about 50 yards."
Graves said he didn't believe it was intentional.
"You never mean to do something like that," Graves told Sporting News. "Kevin was ****ed and he let Tony know. And Tony was trying to give the message back that he wasn't happy either. He went over the line with it."

Ward obviously did the wrong thing, but seriously? A multi-million dollar, iconic, professional "racing driver" accelerated and as a result veered into this young racing driver, resulting in the death of 20-year-old Kevin Ward Jr. What for? Waving his hands in the air.

At a minimum, that's manslaughter. Stewart wouldn't have wanted to kill a man, but seriously. The man is disturbed and needs attention if that's what he's done. His career will have ended in the worst possible way for him, but hopefully he'll lose the respect of every single motorsports fan that he no longer deserves, although I wish no ill health to Tony.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

And yes, I've seen the video. It's frankly disturbing and NASCAR should not let Stewart race for other competitors safety and their dignity.

[chernaudi]

Per ESPN--Stewart has withdrawn from the race, Regan Smith will drive in his place.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Stewart has withdrawn from the race? Is Tony finding some sense in his brain that was clearly lacking when he killed a man?

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Stewart has withdrawn from the race? Is Tony finding some sense in his brain that was clearly lacking when he killed a man?

Oh come off it.

Even if Stewart was hauled before the courts, I doubt the prosecutors would be able to put a very strong case against him. Most people with sense would realise that walking down to where cars are passing, regardless of whether it was under caution, is not at all smart.

Of course, I've no idea if Stewart intended to scare him or not, but in my opinion the kid is more to blame. He put himself at risk, barely off the racing line. Stupidity. That said, it's a very tragic incident, and my thoughts go out to his friends and family, as well as Stewart himself.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Is Tony finding some sense in his brain that was clearly lacking when he killed a man?

This is the kind of over-reaction I'm talking about. There are still so many questions to be answered. To simply say that Stewart killed a man is wrong.

[chernaudi]

As moderator of another forum, I'd have to dub you comment as inflammatory. As I've said, I'll wait for the police investigation to end before I portion out blame.

[Purist]

Unfortunately, NASCAR really only has itself to blame. In their sphere, they've done their best to encourage this "boys have at it" attitude. They've glorified that 1979 Daytona 500 fist fight, and every subsequent altercation. On top of that, they've promoted the drivers over everything else, to the extent that they had a car that was absolutely identical across all the manufacturers, until the manufacturers pushed back. They won't suspend a star driver,, because they fear the hit in attendance/TV ratings that could result.

And it isn't only NASCAR in some of these things. If Romain Grosjean had been a race winner, or had hit guys who were normally back-markers, I'm not sure that he would have been suspended after that start incident at Spa. Heck, the fact he hit regular front-runners and championship contenders was highlighted in the subsequent press release on the matter.

(I'll try not to speculate too much, but my engineer's brain, at some level, DEMANDS to figure these things out for itself, and isn't content to just wait to be spoon-fed whatever somebody else has come up with.)

Based on what I've seen so far though, it doesn't sound good for Tony. I'm no fan of his, but I wouldn't wish this sort of thing on any driver, no matter how much I dislike him.

Keep in mind, racing drivers are NOT in line with the general population when it comes to risk-taking, aggression, and a certain sense of invulnerability, or at least, that they think they can avoid situations, and the bad consequences will fall upon someone else who just isn't quite as good. Also, since death has become so much rarer, certainly in the upper echelons of racing, there is a measure of complacency and a lack of carefulness on the part of everyone. It's not that the drivers intend to be careless, but rather, they aren't FORCED to be as careful, and therefore, the level of precaution they take has slipped compared to yesteryear.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Purist

And it isn't only NASCAR in some of these things.

Grosjean was banned for "endangering championship contenders" or something very similar. It's as if the FIA valued Hamilton's and Alonso's lives over those of Perez, Kobayashi and Maldonado, because of their prior success. It's disgusting.

[davyboy]

I don't believe for a moment that Tony Stewart intended to kill the unfortunate young man. So either one of two things occurred here.

o He blipped the throttle to throw the car sideways and shower Ward with dirt.

o He was headed for Ward and blipped the throttle to throw the car sideways in order to avoid him.

I sincerely hope it was the latter... but the investigation will provide us with the answer.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Why? The main cause is debatable (that's what we're debating about), but there's no doubting that Stewart played a sizeable part. His car ran Ward over.

And had Ward stayed in his car, or not decided to confront Stewart just off the racing line, he'd still be alive.

I don't know how you can ascertain that it was in anyway intentional, or how Stewart is somehow more to blame. Ward put himself at risk, and could easily have been hit by any other car.

We definitely need to see other angles/see data from Stewart's car, or hear from the guy himself before throwing around defamatory and libellous allegations that it was deliberate.

[fieldodreams79]

This kind of thing had been allowed to perpetuate in so many series that it was inevitable that serious consequences were to be paid by someone. It is very unfortunate that someone had to pay with their life and another may have to pay by ending their career or worse.

I saw 2 people acting irresponsibly in a very dangerous environment but video is not as conclusive as the common, complete statements of witnesses at the track. I hope the police are competent enough to bring justice, if necessary or to draw the conclusion that this is nothing more than a terrible tragedy that robbed a young man of a longer life.

My thoughts and prayers are with Kevin Wards' family and friends at this time as this will haunt them for the remainder of their lives.

[mountainstar]

1. This kind of culture of drivers alighting from cars to shake a fist or flip a bird at some other driver they feel did them wrong goes back to the beginning of motor racing history. In American motorsport though it's been encouraged and given a pass by the powers that be as a way of generating drama and rivalries. Not just in Nascar but this sort of thing goes on all the time in short track racing in the USA and has happened plenty of times in road racing series as well.

On the level though, it's a retarded thing to do. You have cars that weigh a ton or two moving at speed on track with a lot of other things going on. That others have not been killed or severely injured(maybe some have) and the fact that sanctioning bodies let this behavior go on, really is a surprise to me. It's dangerous for both involved and ridiculous that sanctioning bodies have not stamped this out before something like this happened.

2. It's impossible for anyone to say that Tony Stewart did this deliberately at this moment in time.

For one thing in my life there are plenty of times I have hit the gas to avoid an accident to get my car out of the way of deer, people and other cars that have jumped out in front of me. These sprint cars don't have great brakes and if someone is running at you on one of these dirt circuits, I'm not so sure hitting the brakes in this case would have made it any better.

3. Has anyone here been to an American short track dirt race with sprint cars at night? Often because there is little breeze at night, the dust hangs in the air. It's dark, the track lighting systems are imperfect, there are shadows, it's dusty, you are moving at speed and your eyes don't work as well in a half lit nighttime scenario. This isn't a paved track at 2pm in the afternoon.

4. Motorsport is a big boy game. It isn't checkers or tiddlywinks. You can die very quickly and especially so doing foolish things. It's bad enough that you can die from sudden deceleration or an incident on track, lets not make it worse with drivers running around on foot on track. People have mentioned criminal charges. That's not the way it works. This is a sporting arena where you can die and sometimes people do. It's a risk and one that some people choose to maximize that risk and some choose to minimize that risk. It's an extremely difficult case to make for criminal charges because of the environment and that the deceased chose to put himself on foot and in the path of circulating cars on a race track. If on a long shot, criminal charges are filled, the defendant will have paid motorsport-specific expert witnesses to testify and it will never stick. A civil court case and more likely a settlement will be the result.