1999 - The Year It Shouldn't Have Been?

luke · 22 Sep 2005, 15:51 (Ref:1414107)

*Contains spoilers of the 1999 season for those who haven't watched the season yet*

Now I know I did the thread on '2002 - What Should Have Been?'..... Well I happened to have seen the 1999 F1 season review over the past few days, I know what your thinking, but I remember at the time after a few years back, when Michael Schuamcher won the title in 2000, when many would have felt he should have in '99, although I know to well people don't feel he would have won the title that year even if he didn't have that unfortunate crash at Silverstone where he suffered a broken leg and missed the rest of the season but re-joing for the penaultimate rounds.
I always thought 2000 was the better season over '99, but it may have been down to the fact that Schumacher finaly won the title but looking back at the season reviews, '99 looked far more exciting although it could easierly have been similar to 2000 as at lot of things that happened would not normaly happen espcially in the later years.
For example Hakkinen had far to many mechanical let downs, and yes he did make a few crusial mistakes (Imola and Monza where he spun out with a clear lead) and many mistakes from his team mate DC, where Coulthard mad an error as he spun Hakkinen round at Austria and made a half hearted move on him at Spa. If none of this happened I expect Hakkinen would have been a clear winner in the championship, and we wouldn't have had these unpredictable exciting races.
Also if you look at how well Irvine did, just finishing off two points in the standings to champion Mika, I was a big Eddie fan, but facts and facts, the races he won, was down to others errors or msifortune and if Schumacher hadn't have broken his leg at Sliverstone then I'm sure he would have won many more races and had the better of Mika but no one can prove this or against this but the fact is Irvine finished within two points of Mika.
What are your views of '99?

TheNewBob · 22 Sep 2005, 16:24 (Ref:1414137)

One thing to remember about '99 - Jordan's greatest season. Wasn't Frentzen in the title hunt with 3 races left? Also Johnny Herbert and Stewart GP recording the team's only victory at the Nurburgring thriller.

Inigo Montoya · 22 Sep 2005, 16:54 (Ref:1414154)

The thing I'll remember most is the amazing recovery that Michael made from his injuries. If I remember correctly, he moved over to let Irvine take the win in his very first race back. That recovery, along with his win the day after his mother's funeral, I consider two of the most impressive accomplishments of his stellar career.

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 17:48 (Ref:1414177)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

The thing I'll remember most is the amazing recovery that Michael made from his injuries. If I remember correctly, he moved over to let Irvine take the win in his very first race back.

Fantastic pole lap, fantastic race. The best no.1 AND the nest no.2 in the business. I consider that his best race ever.

No clue · 23 Sep 2005, 09:01 (Ref:1414608)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

The thing I'll remember most is the amazing recovery that Michael made from his injuries. If I remember correctly, he moved over to let Irvine take the win in his very first race back. That recovery, along with his win the day after his mother's funeral, I consider two of the most impressive accomplishments of his stellar career.

That first race in Malaysia! Still today for me one of races that will always stand out in my mind.

To the topic - Irvine did not deserve to win the title in 99, he just was not "good" enough (before people start jumping on my head, I used to be a fan, really liked the bloke). Only 2 people deserved it that year - Mika and Schu. Unfortonately Silverstone ended Schu's title bid.

Great year though.

Andrew2001 · 25 Sep 2005, 21:53 (Ref:1416308)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

The thing I'll remember most is the amazing recovery that Michael made from his injuries. If I remember correctly, he moved over to let Irvine take the win in his very first race back. That recovery, along with his win the day after his mother's funeral, I consider two of the most impressive accomplishments of his stellar career.

Yeah, it was like (while MS was away) we were watching the Ferrari junior team. They struggled to beat the Stewarts during the race, but Irvine reliably brought his car home time after time, and while McLaren did the utmost to shoot themselves in the foot, he took 3 race wins. But when ever Mika finished, Irvine was miles behind.
Mika made two big mistakes that year, a real shame as both were wins in the bag, and drove poorly at the Nurburgring where he gave up after quarter distance, due to the changeable conditions and him being onthe wrong tyres.

That year, like this one, was one in which Mika could have and should have won basically every race of the year.
Imola: made mistake while leading effortlessly.
Monza: same as above.
Silverstone: wheel came off while leading easily.
Hockenheim: tyre delamination while recovering from slow pitstop, was leading easily from Salo (in Ferrari) before hand.
Austria: taken out of race by Dc, recovered to 3rd.
Australia: engine failure while leading effortlessly.

that is just a taste of the wins he lost. But at the end of the day, when his car was reliable he absolutely crushed the opposition; Brazil, Montreal, Nurburgring and Suzuka, in particular, could have been car failures as well, but were not, and no one could tocuh him.
I suspect, that not even Schumacher could have done anything about Mika in 1999 even if he didn't have his accident.
If MS didn't have the crash at Silverstone, then Mika may not have made the mistake at Monza, hence he would have been pushed harder.
but unfortunately for Irvine, he was not fast enough, and was not able to lead Ferrari in the way they need to be led to win races.
Frentzen had an absolutely fantastic year, and due to Mika's mistfortune, may well have won the title, his bad luck at Nurburgring crushed any chances Jordan had, lead until that point.
DC had an absolutely awful year. Mistake after mistake, Mika blew him away by all accounts, and considering he was only 4 points ahead of Schumacher by seasons end, even after the german missed 6 races, and the McLaren was the superior car, goes to show just how badly he did.

Exciting year, but I would have preferred it less exciting and Mika win everything and have had the title by Spa.

L-B · 26 Sep 2005, 03:18 (Ref:1416480)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew2001

DC had an absolutely awful year. Mistake after mistake, Mika blew him away by all accounts, and considering he was only 4 points ahead of Schumacher by seasons end, even after the german missed 6 races, and the McLaren was the superior car, goes to show just how badly he did.

DC had mechanical gremlins like you would not believe

He retired 7 times, 3 times from the lead and only once (Nurburgring) was his fault. He only finished 9 races and one of them was out of the points thanks to a clash with Irvine

MS didn't have a terminal mechanical failure in the ten races he took part in crashing out twice once in Canada once in Britain. Finishing 8 races. In Aus he did finish but suffered terrible mechanical woes to leave him out the points.

Dc was generally between 0.2 and 0.4 behind Mika in qualifying which is hardly "blown away"

**Adam43** · 26 Sep 2005, 09:07 (Ref:1416627)

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-B

DC had mechanical gremlins like you would not believe

Not quite as bad as Mika, or at least he wasn't in such a good position as Mika when it occured! Mika through away 2 wins, by I think mechanical problems lost him another 4, with DC helping with one in Austria.

DC did have some unlucky mechanical problems at McLaren, but I think Mika had more than his fair share of them.

I think '99 was a poor year for DC overall. Although he had a very good win in Belgium GP where he got past Mika at the start with a bold move and then had the legs on him for the rest of the race.

ASCII Man · 22 Sep 2005, 17:15 (Ref:1414165)

Hmmm i wouldn't blame monza too much on Mika, didn't he have brake failure there?

Stargazer7 · 23 Sep 2005, 12:00 (Ref:1414749)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Hmmm i wouldn't blame monza too much on Mika, didn't he have brake failure there?

I think we had 1st gear rather than 2nd, so he lost the car. Remember, no TC back then (at least officialy)

luke · 22 Sep 2005, 18:07 (Ref:1414189)

I seem to remember Mika not beeing happy about that at all.

esorniloc · 22 Sep 2005, 18:14 (Ref:1414191)

The thing I remember the most from 99 was Luca Badoer in a Minardi running in 4th or 5th spot and breaking down in the Europe GP.

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 18:16 (Ref:1414194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

I seem to remember Mika not beeing happy about that at all.

Of course he wasn't he just lost the race to it! He wasn't going to do a jig.

And then he was world champion a few hours later, and then a few days later not again.

luke · 22 Sep 2005, 19:58 (Ref:1414257)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Of course he wasn't he just lost the race to it! He wasn't going to do a jig.

And then he was world champion a few hours later, and then a few days later not again.

Well he said around the lines of Michael was breaking in non breaking zones and nearly causing crashes and taken strange lines, and driving strange I think certainly gave Eddie the gap he needed.

Still can not believe how unrealiable the Mclaren was and still is to an extent now.

McLaren3gr · 22 Sep 2005, 19:24 (Ref:1414234)

The thing that i remember from 99' ,apart from Mika's championship is the stupid error of DC in the last race that cost us the constructor's championship ...

**John Turner** · 22 Sep 2005, 20:29 (Ref:1414285)

Quote:

Originally Posted by McLaren3gr

The thing that i remember from 99' .......... is the stupid error of DC in the last race that cost us the constructor's championship ...

What was that error exactly? The records show that DC played a very strong team game in support of Mika at Suzuka that day, despite a recalcitrant gearbox which eventually eliminated him from the race.

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 20:03 (Ref:1414260)

There is no question that Schumacher engineered the gap Irvine needed. It was remarkable.

Mika's comment on the situation (from Atlas after the race):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas F1

Mika Hakkinen was exhausted, hardly managing to stand on the podium after a race he described as "the hardest race of my life," before complementing the Ferrari men on their victory. "They had brilliant tactics. I don't blame them. I had to drive flat out all the way. I was never sure when Michael was going to brake. I had to be careful - it took maximum concentration to follow him for most of the race."

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 20:52 (Ref:1414304)

IIRC he spun and lost his wing early on in the race, but then gearbox problems put him out. I don't think the spin was a result of gerbox problems, but I could be wrong.

Hazza · 22 Sep 2005, 22:05 (Ref:1414351)

What about Mika Salo being in a position to win the German GP on debut only having to move aside for Eddie?

Eddie was so guilty that he gave the winner's trophy to Mika!

Inigo Montoya · 22 Sep 2005, 22:15 (Ref:1414355)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazza

What about Mika Salo being in a position to win the German GP on debut only having to move aside for Eddie?

Eddie was so guilty that he gave the winner's trophy to Mika!

That was also an amazing accomplishment! Its too bad he was not rewarded with a contract at Ferrari.

Joe Taylor · 24 Sep 2005, 14:24 (Ref:1415394)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

That was also an amazing accomplishment! Its too bad he was not rewarded with a contract at Ferrari.

I believe that his performance in Hungary didn't exactly help. He still got a testing contract and a Sauber drive for 2000 though didn't he?

The main thing I remember about 1999 is how Ferrari lost the title early in the season through team orders. At the French (IIRC) GP, Irvine was ordered to move over to let Schumacher through and we all know what then happened...

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 22:17 (Ref:1414357)

Minor point, but it wasn't Salo's debut in the Ferrari it was his second race for them. It was still impressive.

Could you imagine around here if we had to go through a '99. Which was a relatively calm year by some comparison! Team orders, TGF injured, JV off the pace, Hill off the pace, Button driving into a pit wall in F3, Webber flipping at Le Mans. This place would explode! And all because interesting things happened!

JohnnyFiama · 23 Sep 2005, 11:06 (Ref:1414696)

Pedro Diniz outscoring Jean Alesi in an identical car??

Hazza · 23 Sep 2005, 09:11 (Ref:1414614)

I agree that he didn't "Deserve" the victory, I think all his victories came from Mclaren "Doing their best to loose the title" and from Team-Orders etc.

However in Melborne he just drove a solid race and had the luck.

A question -- I've read conflicting reports as to what the final margin of victory for Mika was, if Schu had of pulled over then Mika would've won on a countback or what?

**Adam43** · 23 Sep 2005, 09:14 (Ref:1414617)

Yes Mika would have won on count back. Same points, 76, and five victories to Mika and four to Irvine.

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