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14 May 2020, 08:17 (Ref:3976042) | #1 | |||
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Category engine
Alan Gow suggests it makes no difference to fans if all the race cars use the same engine -- subsequently, the vast majority of entrants in the BTCC use the category "Swindon" engine which is based on a GM engine. The trouble locally though seems to be complaints from Ford fans about Fords using Chevrolet engines, or from Holdens fans about Holdens using Ford engines -- Casper has solved the issue: use an engine from another manufacturer entirely.
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707 hp @ 6,000 rpm 880 Nm @ 4,800 rpm $15,900 USD / $24,700 AUD https://www.moparproshop.com/inc/sdetail/16460/16733 Engine details: https://www.enginelabs.com/news/hell...ngine-details/ [Iron block, forged pistons & rods -- presumably this HEMI is durable enough for racing?] Seems a fairly affordable way to get 707 reliable Dodge horsepower. The only concern with the Dodge Hellcat is that being supercharged, does it suffer heat soak when it is run continually flat-out for long periods of time? It has an air-to-water intercooler sandwiched under the blower, but this might need to be tested and perhaps upgraded. Thoughts on a category engine for Supercars and what it should be? Otherwise it could be the Chevrolet LS or LT (direct-injected LS). Or it could be the Ford Coyote. Probably the standard 5.0L block, as the bored-out 5.2L uses "plasma arc spray-on cylinder liners" and can't be easily honed or rebuilt. Pairing a flatplane crank with an unequal length header, like the Shelby GT350 Mustang, would give the Supercars category a fun and unique sound. What other options are there? Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 14 May 2020 at 08:37. |
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14 May 2020, 09:35 (Ref:3976065) | #2 | |
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14 May 2020, 10:03 (Ref:3976076) | #3 | |||
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I thought everyone apart from Honda, BMW and Subaru runners use the TOCA engine? Who else doesn't use it? Edit -- It seems many of the Honda privateers use the TOCA engine and not the Honda K series: Quote:
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14 May 2020, 11:07 (Ref:3976104) | #4 | ||
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There might potentially be a less biased source for your information.
16/30 is TECHNICALLY a majority. We shouldn't really be using PR puff as evidence of anything..... |
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14 May 2020, 11:07 (Ref:3976106) | #5 | ||
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14 May 2020, 11:13 (Ref:3976111) | #6 | |
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I see! Given the reputation of the Ford Ecoboost for a variety of ailments [cracked heads etc], that is very brave of them!
I am surprised it is so contentious! The point is that the BTCC Audi, Mercedes, Toyota, Alfa, Renault etc all use the category engine and nobody cares that these vehicles don't have the correct engine. With Team18 quitting due to costs, every measure to reduce costs in Supercars seems critical. Replacing a $150,000AUD engine that requires lots of machining and custom parts and can only run around 5,000km between rebuilds, with a relatively unmodified category engine that costs $25,000AUD and can run 10,000km between rebuilds seem an important step to containing costs. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 14 May 2020 at 11:18. |
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14 May 2020, 12:21 (Ref:3976122) | #7 | |||
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Sure there's lots of cars, but half of them are rubbish and the drivers in the back half of the field are nobodies. A lot like the old days of Supercars. |
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14 May 2020, 20:55 (Ref:3976243) | #8 | ||
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Agree on reducing costs but didn't know that Team18 was quitting and citing costs as the reason for quitting. When was it announced? I'll go and have a look for the info.
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
14 May 2020, 11:07 (Ref:3976103) | #9 | ||
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14 May 2020, 16:59 (Ref:3976204) | #10 | |||
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18 May 2020, 11:43 (Ref:3976923) | #11 | ||
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A few crate engines (say three: V8, TTV6, TIL4) built by Supercars technical team with a engine person per manufacturer to help guide the build. (One from Ford, BMW, etc for example)
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One batch two batch, penny and dime |
18 May 2020, 13:35 (Ref:3976943) | #12 | |
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Keep it simple I say, let the manufacturers build it to the regulations and we’ll see a good formula come of it
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
19 May 2020, 09:28 (Ref:3977107) | #13 | |
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Why would the European/American manufacturers want to join a small category on the other side of the world with very small volumes in the domestic market, it simply does not make sense and stopped makng sense when local production stopped. The whole ethos of what made SC a good category went down the slot with the production closures but I don't think that penny has dropped yet even a few years down the track.
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20 May 2020, 05:17 (Ref:3977252) | #14 | ||
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More cutting-edge categories like Japanese SuperGT and Formula One are pushing ahead with turbulent jet injection (and the ultra-lean super-efficient combustion that goes with it), meanwhile Supercars is stuck on port injection and 10:1 compression and (presumably) the horribly poor thermal efficiency that goes with that! With a "have at it" approach, BMW and Audi spent 80 million euro on just engine development alone for their 2L turbo DTM engines. Audi 610hp DTM engine: It's rather ugly isn't it? But it is 85 kg, which is a good ~40 kg lighter than a production-based four cylinder engine... So there's that I guess. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 20 May 2020 at 05:28. |
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21 May 2020, 08:31 (Ref:3977469) | #15 | |||
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GRM won in the Volvo, and they won in Holdens. Erebus won in the faux Benz, and they have been very competitive since. The Kellys Holdens never threatened and unfortunately the mediocrity continued with the Nissans. Their engine was never particularly competitive and its clear post-Mustang that the car probably carried aerodynamic deficiencies that the team were not smart enough to identify, until the Mustang forced the realisation. There can only be technical parity; it doesn't make a given team a winner. |
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19 May 2020, 13:25 (Ref:3977150) | #16 | |
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I think it might have to take a while for things to settle down. It will have to keep things simple for now. We have had good times, but they won't last and we might have to start from zero. We just need to focus on survival for now
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
22 May 2020, 07:08 (Ref:3977649) | #17 | ||
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I want big,noisey,flame belching V8's that suck up carbon credits and melt polar ice caps.
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22 May 2020, 12:50 (Ref:3977686) | #18 | ||
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22 May 2020, 13:29 (Ref:3977693) | #19 | |
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Those are different, but V8s have showed how good they can do it, with a few minor tweaks here and there
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
22 May 2020, 23:23 (Ref:3977809) | #20 | ||
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Even with Ford BOSS and Chevrolet small block engines, other categories can make more power for less money... |
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23 May 2020, 03:26 (Ref:3977820) | #21 | ||
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why not a spec hybrid system, more in line with other categories, WEC, Indycar, DTM and in the near future even NASCAR.
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23 May 2020, 14:06 (Ref:3977895) | #22 | |
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If they find funding the present drive train difficult then if a hybrid system is employed it will add on top of those expenses and the complexity and recruitment of suitable people to run them will be even higher. They either stick with dino fuel or go full electric which would be cheaper and brings instant parity but the fans won't accept that of course. Maybe there is a slim chance that going full electric would attract manufacturers, a pretty vague chance though.
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23 May 2020, 19:14 (Ref:3977930) | #23 | ||
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I'd rather forgive Australia for the underarm bowl than watch Electric Super Cars....
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23 May 2020, 19:23 (Ref:3977932) | #24 | |||
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Quite frankly some of these teams need to wake up and smell the coffee before this along with some other major series disappear altogether. I honestly believe that the true financial implications of the pandemic are yet to bite. Last edited by justracing; 23 May 2020 at 19:28. |
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24 May 2020, 00:53 (Ref:3977980) | #25 | |
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Thanks for proving my point. The fact that there would racing and it would be far cheaper with true engine parity will not be seen by fans as a plus. I bet that if it was the other way around, moving from electric to new fangled IC motors with lots of noise the reaction would be the same....why do we have to have all that noise. Electric racing cars might have saved Oran Park & Amaroo, we will never know but just maybe it might have.
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