[BTCC] 2024 BTCC - Croft Rds. 16/17/18

[SSmith]

The BTCC returns this weekend at Croft!

Can Jake Hill extend his championship lead, or can Ingram and Sutton fight back? Will Croft revert back to being a RWD track, or will the recent FWD successes continue?

I'm most looking forward to the CTCRC Pre-66 Touring Cars. Got to see them race in person at Super Touring Power 2 last month, and if they can attract a field of similar calibre for Croft then it will be fantastic. Their appearances as part of the streamed BARC meetings are also good to watch.

Timetable

Noticeboard

TSL Timing

Entry List [TBA]

Qualifying - YouTube - Saturday 15:00 - 15:55
Races - ITV4 - Sunday 12:05; 14:45; 17:00

ITV4 on air from 11:15 - 18:30. All being well there should be 9 televised races - 3x BTCC, 2x CTCRC Pre-66, 2x PCCGB, 1x Porsche Sprint Challenge, 1x MINI JCW

[coffinpilot]

Really looking forward to the Pre-66 races. I read in Autosport that the grid will include Max Chilton in a Cortina with Team Dynamics, but because it's over subscribed Matt Neal couldn't get an entry for himself in another Cortina.

I think they'll be the best of the weekend. I've seen the Historics almost every year at Croft in their retro festival meeting. Best place to watch them is Sunny, the way they drift through In and Out is bloomin mesmerising!

[ScottS]

As much as I'm looking forward to this one I have concerns at how well this meeting will go for the touring cars in particular.

Clervaux:

You've either got cars running through its gravel trap and out the other side bringing the gravel trap onto the race track. Or, cars getting stuck in it's gravel trap which often brings out regular safety cars. Although saying that, in the recent TCR meeting, they do have a telehandler by that corner and they were making short shift of live snatches during the racing. So hopefully that carries over into this BTCC event.

Another thing to note here is if a car does make it to the tyre stacks, this regularly involves the track workers jumping into action to do barrier repairs which can lead to long periods of safety car action or delay's to the following race starting.

The chicane, aptly named Chicane:

I can see alot of issues happening here and alot of "grey areas" being discussed. Are we going to have more controversy when it comes to cutting the chicane and who should be where out of the other side much like we have had at Thruxton and Oulton Park? This sort of issue seems to be something TOCA are really struggling to police consistently. At what point does cutting it to maintain position turn into cutting it to avoid a collision?

Also at this part of the track we have Tim Harvey's favourite thing in the world and that is tyre stacks. I'm still surprised to this day that with all the brain power in the world, tyre stacks are still the chosen thing to prevent corner cutting. We have seen how in the past, small mistakes have turned into big money bills that some teams can ill afford. Not only that, but if they are tapped hard enough to move them the safety car has to then come out to keep putting them back into position.

The last point on this corner is we now have this bodywork rule. Is this going to be another meeting where the talking point will be how <insert a front running driver here> clipped the tyre stack, dislodged a small bit of insignificant bit of bodywork which ruined there race because they had to pit to get it removed.

Jim Clark Esses:

As above really when it comes to the tyre stacks. Less so the big damage but more so the small damage and the new bodywork rule potentially coming into play here.

The 2nd part of the esses also invites people to stray over the white line on corner exit. It's another track where I believe the track limits are monitored by a marshall rather than a camera and sensor setup. Even then, the marshall is quite some distance away due to the nature of the corner. Is this going to be another event where it's pot luck whether you are pinged for track limits?

Lastly the hairpin which also seems to be aptly named, Hairpin:

With how wide touring cars are and this track not growing anytime soon. This is another corner which often causes trouble. More so now than ever before with this bodywork rule which has crept in. How inviting would it be for someone to stick their nose of their car down the rear quarter of the car in front to dislodge a piece of bodywork which means a 100% trip to the pits. This could be far easier to do than to actually put an overtake on the car in front if the running is super close.

For me I just think that the BTCC cars have grown a bit too much for this track. Also, with the various grey areas that have been uncovered this year with how close the racing has got, I feel like the conversation could be dominated by stewards decisions rather than by how good the racing was.

If I was in any of the teams shoes, I'd either use 2 screws in any of the extended arches to make sure they fly off instantly when touched, or 200 screws to make sure there is no chance of them coming adrift.

[MarcusH26]

Guessing just the 20 for BTCC, no late deals to get the fourth Beemer on the grid to help Jake's title push out?

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by ScottS

As much as I'm looking forward to this one I have concerns at how well this meeting will go for the touring cars in particular.

Clervaux:

You've either got cars running through its gravel trap and out the other side bringing the gravel trap onto the race track. Or, cars getting stuck in it's gravel trap which often brings out regular safety cars. Although saying that, in the recent TCR meeting, they do have a telehandler by that corner and they were making short shift of live snatches during the racing. So hopefully that carries over into this BTCC event.

Another thing to note here is if a car does make it to the tyre stacks, this regularly involves the track workers jumping into action to do barrier repairs which can lead to long periods of safety car action or delay's to the following race starting.

The chicane, aptly named Chicane:

I can see alot of issues happening here and alot of "grey areas" being discussed. Are we going to have more controversy when it comes to cutting the chicane and who should be where out of the other side much like we have had at Thruxton and Oulton Park? This sort of issue seems to be something TOCA are really struggling to police consistently. At what point does cutting it to maintain position turn into cutting it to avoid a collision?

Also at this part of the track we have Tim Harvey's favourite thing in the world and that is tyre stacks. I'm still surprised to this day that with all the brain power in the world, tyre stacks are still the chosen thing to prevent corner cutting. We have seen how in the past, small mistakes have turned into big money bills that some teams can ill afford. Not only that, but if they are tapped hard enough to move them the safety car has to then come out to keep putting them back into position.

The last point on this corner is we now have this bodywork rule. Is this going to be another meeting where the talking point will be how <insert a front running driver here> clipped the tyre stack, dislodged a small bit of insignificant bit of bodywork which ruined there race because they had to pit to get it removed.

Jim Clark Esses:

As above really when it comes to the tyre stacks. Less so the big damage but more so the small damage and the new bodywork rule potentially coming into play here.

The 2nd part of the esses also invites people to stray over the white line on corner exit. It's another track where I believe the track limits are monitored by a marshall rather than a camera and sensor setup. Even then, the marshall is quite some distance away due to the nature of the corner. Is this going to be another event where it's pot luck whether you are pinged for track limits?

Lastly the hairpin which also seems to be aptly named, Hairpin:

With how wide touring cars are and this track not growing anytime soon. This is another corner which often causes trouble. More so now than ever before with this bodywork rule which has crept in. How inviting would it be for someone to stick their nose of their car down the rear quarter of the car in front to dislodge a piece of bodywork which means a 100% trip to the pits. This could be far easier to do than to actually put an overtake on the car in front if the running is super close.

For me I just think that the BTCC cars have grown a bit too much for this track. Also, with the various grey areas that have been uncovered this year with how close the racing has got, I feel like the conversation could be dominated by stewards decisions rather than by how good the racing was.

If I was in any of the teams shoes, I'd either use 2 screws in any of the extended arches to make sure they fly off instantly when touched, or 200 screws to make sure there is no chance of them coming adrift.

The turn 1 live snatch at Croft is licenced for all racing this weekend - it's not licenced for single seaters, but F4 isn't there.

Cameras. Croft had to shell out for the TOCA light boards, the rumours being Gow told them if they didn't, they'd lose the round - personally I don't believe that was really the case that they'd lose it - but the cost of cameras or pads, fine for MSV if they want, but it worked with human eyes last weekend for TCR, in terrible conditions, especially the extra turn 1 sets of eyes after the kerb was broken on Saturday.

It'll be the same old Croft as it has been since 1997, less refined than the big tracks.

If you bin it off then Knockhill would have to go as well. They could be replaced by two extra Silverstone rounds where the Int and GP layouts are used - the cars will be miles apart then, so no worries of any close racing.

Those concerns are legit for Brit GT (which obviously couldn't go back there) but for BTCC? There has to be a bit of 'get on with it.'

I agree on the stacks on one hand, and I'm on the side of Tingram to an extent with Thruxton, but this is BTCC remember. Remove the stacks and some drivers will take the XXXX. More of a worry at Croft is the floppy at turn one, that thing gets enough air at the start of every race I'm surprised it hasn't plonked someone on the head in the little lego grandstand!

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Croft had to shell out for the TOCA light boards, the rumours being Gow told them if they didn't, they'd lose the round

nothing to do with btcc or gow
its a motorsport uk requirement for all fia grade 3 circuits.

https://www.barc.net/barc-to-install...rt-uk-rollout/

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

nothing to do with btcc or gow
its a motorsport uk requirement for all fia grade 3 circuits.

https://www.barc.net/barc-to-install...rt-uk-rollout/

You are just allowing facts to get in the way of a good yarn!

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

nothing to do with btcc or gow
its a motorsport uk requirement for all fia grade 3 circuits.

https://www.barc.net/barc-to-install...rt-uk-rollout/

That maybe so, but come on, we all like a good bit of rumour! But after popping into Croft this morning (I was passing in the van, they're painting kerbs and prettying the place up) I asked one of the staff members, and according to them, we're all wrong. The delay was related to the ex-wife of the local co-owner (she who leads the noise restrictions - even though she's part owner) because she didn't want the £60,000 costs.

Apparently her latest trick, that will come out soon, is her wanting the council to change the sound monitoring. Currently (I didn't know this) the volume during the week is measured by microphones, but it's 'x' volume across an hour, instead of a race weekend where there is an upper limit. I've been there for F4 private testing (which isn't that private) and wondered why they'd run 20 minutes then park for 40 mins - it's so they don't 'top up' across each hour.

The interesting thing about private testing there also, according to that bloke working there, is that the BRSCC hired the track for a day a couple of months back, to put one car out, a Fiesta Junior for someone with the name Turkington, and when the lad goosed the gearbox after an hour his Dad (Colin is his name I think?!) pulled the staff and marshalls into the garage for breakfast and an impromptu Q&A.

It does have you wondering - because the rumours have always been that the BARC money from Croft was split in favour of Thruxton - how the finances will change with this new Thruxton owner?

(I'm not some stalking saddo, I live in a village beside Croft - I'll be walking on the weekend so I'll be home when everyone is still stuck in the car parks!!)

[coppice]

I wonder if it ever occurs to critics of circuits like Croft and Oulton Park that any problem about accommodating cars is down to the fact that for reasons best known to the manufacturers and organisers , cars have grown obscenely large and heavy ? And instead of bleating about how the tracks they condescend to visit once a year should spend scores of millions to accommodate their obese cars they might , y'know, make smaller ones ?

[antnee]

Originally Posted by coppice

I wonder if it ever occurs to critics of circuits like Croft and Oulton Park that any problem about accommodating cars is down to the fact that for reasons best known to the manufacturers and organisers , cars have grown obscenely large and heavy ? And instead of bleating about how the tracks they condescend to visit once a year should spend scores of millions to accommodate their obese cars they might , y'know, make smaller ones ?

Hope that is a tongue in cheek comment.....

Cars are the sized due to crash structures, interior space demands, equipment demands, stability/handling demands, etc. Not going to change billions (maybe trillion) worth of an industry due to a few blokes in blighty are upset that the racing isn't like it used to be on their old circuits.

[coppice]

Originally Posted by antnee

Hope that is a tongue in cheek comment.....

Cars are the sized due to crash structures, interior space demands, equipment demands, stability/handling demands, etc. Not going to change billions (maybe trillion) worth of an industry due to a few blokes in blighty are upset that the racing isn't like it used to be on their old circuits.

That is the popular myth peddled to justify society's love of driving huge cars . But it needn't be so - there's plenty of smaller cars on the market , often excellent(Yaris GR , for example) but manufactures spaff billions on the raw materials needed to make giant cars . Which , for reasons which are utterly beyond me , some people want to impress their neighbours with.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by coppice

I wonder if it ever occurs to critics of circuits like Croft and Oulton Park that any problem about accommodating cars is down to the fact that for reasons best known to the manufacturers and organisers , cars have grown obscenely large and heavy ? And instead of bleating about how the tracks they condescend to visit once a year should spend scores of millions to accommodate their obese cars they might , y'know, make smaller ones ?

Are the cars on the grid today that much bigger than the cars of the '90s?

[SV8Predator]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Are the cars on the grid today that much bigger than the cars of the '90s?

You are just allowing facts to get in the way of a good yarn!

[v8supes]

Originally Posted by coppice

I wonder if it ever occurs to critics of circuits like Croft and Oulton Park that any problem about accommodating cars is down to the fact that for reasons best known to the manufacturers and organisers , cars have grown obscenely large and heavy ? And instead of bleating about how the tracks they condescend to visit once a year should spend scores of millions to accommodate their obese cars they might , y'know, make smaller ones ?

You cant have smaller cars anymore because of modern safety features, entertainment and comfort technology and batteries.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by v8supes

You cant have smaller cars anymore because of modern safety features, entertainment and comfort technology and batteries.

Citroen Ami spec series anyone?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Citroen Ami spec series anyone?

That's a quadricycle, so has different requirements to a car.

[S griffin]

Good job we have a great weekend’s racing to look forward to. Should see a great battle for the win

[SSmith]

https://btcc.net/goodyear-btcc-previ...tion-at-croft/

Tyre compounds - Softs (Q and 2 Races) and Hards (1 Race).

[S griffin]

I can see the 2nd race being the most action packed. Gonna predict a Toyota win

[Greem]

I for one am looking forward to the mentions of the Knowledgeable Crowd on the commentary

[coppice]

There ought to be mention of the crowd being world leaders in gazebo and bivvy erection. Items which , despite having been a Croft regular since 1 litre F3 days, I have never seen the need to take to a race meeting.

CTRC race was just fabulous but TWO doses of Porsches is at least one too many and I'd far rather see F4.

Of the BTCC cars I enjoyed watching the Focuses most as they do seem to go sideways at the slighest excuse .

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by coppice

There ought to be mention of the crowd being world leaders in gazebo and bivvy erection. Items which , despite having been a Croft regular since 1 litre F3 days, I have never seen the need to take to a race meeting.

Having had to resort to using sports umbrellas at Oulton this year to protect against the sun as best as possible (as well as copious amounts of factor 50 sun lotion), my son and I have agreed that next year's annual foray we will be putting up a sun shelter. I do agree, however, that a gazebo is a step too far.

[InYourMirrors45]

Originally Posted by coppice

There ought to be mention of the crowd being world leaders in gazebo and bivvy erection. Items which , despite having been a Croft regular since 1 litre F3 days, I have never seen the need to take to a race meeting.

CTRC race was just fabulous but TWO doses of Porsches is at least one too many and I'd far rather see F4.

Of the BTCC cars I enjoyed watching the Focuses most as they do seem to go sideways at the slighest excuse .

A certain group in particular had erected a wind breaker but in doing so had taken up the whole width of the bank at the chicane leaving a gap between there seats and the fence that was big enough to fit about 2 rows deep of people and then most of the day half of them weren’t even at their chairs. Really selfish IMO and because if people like that the rest of us all sit squeezed on top of each other, inc children who then struggle to see. Another elderly couple sat with about a gap of about 4 ft between them to avoid people squeezing in next to them. They then had the nerve to complain when someone did exactly that. There’s plenty of room for us all of everyone considered others but that’s not the world we live in nowadays.

[AJD]

Power Maxed really seem to have that Astra working well. Shows there's some longevity in these cars if you're willing to really work at it. ATS looks really at home in the car/team which is nice to see too.

[S griffin]

Great pole from Turkington. With Cammish and Tingram next, it should be a fascinating race.