New LMP2 engine - and (more) rule changes

[ss_collins]

well the 4 litre rumours seem to be true - an all new LMP2 engine based on the BMW V8 has been unvieled - its a 4 litre V8 producing 530bhp and 500nm torque - its also very low cost in comparison to other engines.

More details and pics when I'm awake!

[AU N EGL]

what is the time frame?

[The359]

Isn't the maximum LMP2 displacement 3.4 liters? Why would the ACO approve larger engines if they keep trying to slow the LMP2 class down?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by The359

Isn't the maximum LMP2 displacement 3.4 liters? Why would the ACO approve larger engines if they keep trying to slow the LMP2 class down?

3.4L for a non homologated engine & 4.0L for a homologated engine. If I remember correctly both Porsche and Acura were petitioning the ACO, at least verbally, for the rule to be changed to 4.0L to be able to build more reliability into the engines (supposedly).

L.P.

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

3.4L for a non homologated engine & 4.0L for a homologated engine. If I remember correctly both Porsche and Acura were petitioning the ACO, at least verbally, for the rule to be changed to 4.0L to be able to build more reliability into the engines (supposedly).

L.P.

Given the LMP2 attrition rate at Le Mans this year, thats not a bad idea!

[knighty]

I know Heini-Mader did a 4 Litre BMW V8 in the late 90's for the IRL series, they leter converted it to a sports car engine, then Mechachrome bought them out, and its now the basis of the Renault GP2 engine.......wasnt Kruse running a 3.4 version of this GP2 engine, but the transporter and car burnt out and killed the project a few months back

but your saying its all new, so I'm guessing its based on the new M3 V8, which I'm told is much lighter than the previous V8, by about 30 Kg I think......which is a step in the right direction, as the old BMW V8 was very heavy.......will be interesting to see whos doing it!

[The359]

Originally Posted by knighty

I know Heini-Mader did a 4 Litre BMW V8 in the late 90's for the IRL series, they leter converted it to a sports car engine, then Mechachrome bought them out, and its now the basis of the Renault GP2 engine.......wasnt Kruse running a 3.4 version of this GP2 engine, but the transporter and car burnt out and killed the project a few months back

but your saying its all new, so I'm guessing its based on the new M3 V8, which I'm told is much lighter than the previous V8, by about 30 Kg I think......which is a step in the right direction, as the old BMW V8 was very heavy.......will be interesting to see whos doing it!

T2M was using the Mader V8 back down to 3.4 liters before they dropped out of the series. They were way off the pace.

Kruse used a normal Judd XV.

[chewymonster]

I think you can make a 4.0 but it has to be based on a production engine. This engine would satisfy the rules, but I am sure it won't be competative.

[pirenzo]

I'd imagine it might not be that competitive now, but if the ACO continues to slowly fall into line with FIA thinking it won't be long before a production based engine block is mandatory, especially for the 'cheap', 'privateer' LMP2 cars.

[zac510]

Sam is this production block going to be stressed?

[WouterM]

Originally Posted by zac510

Sam is this production block going to be stressed?

I think there are only very few stressed engines in LMP1 and none in LMP2 at the moment. So that would be an interesting development.

[zac510]

Well more, being based on a production engine.

I always thought most engines in protos were stressed/semi stressed.

[knighty]

update is on DSC.......Sodemo are the people behind the proposal to the ACO.....aparrently they are considering 4 litre for production derived LMP2 engines only for 4 litre rules, weight is predicted at 140Kg, power 530bhp.

the only thing that worries me about this engine is the alusil bores, they dont like much more that what they were designed for, otherwise they scuff up badly, buth this can easily be fixed with liners or nikasil coating.

140Kg is a big improvement over the last BMW motor......it was around the 180 to 200Kg I think......I think the Porsche, Judd and Honda units are around 100 to 110Kg......so 140Kg is not a bad starting point.

the 4.0 will have more torque and rev lower, I wonder if this will make Honda nad Porsche adapt production based units too......as this is what LMP2 should be all about......cost effective racing.

[Duff_44]

Originally Posted by knighty

the only thing that worries me about this engine is the alusil bores, they dont like much more that what they were designed for, otherwise they scuff up badly, buth this can easily be fixed with liners or nikasil coating.

According to the GT2 rulebook (which would govern the modifications for homologated engines) you can add sleeves if the block does not have them, or machine the existing sleeves for a larger bore... it doesn't specifically address re-sleeving. Interesting question...

Originally Posted by knighty

you what?.....where did you hear this?.........I thought diesel wasnt yet allowed LMP2.......does anyone know anything about diesel LMP2 regs?.......

4400cc maximum, twin-turbos allowed (2000cc petrol engines must use a single turbo in P2). Must use pistons, connecting rods, cylinder heads, and valves from a production engine (10000+ units). 3000mmb manifold pressure and 1 x 53.0mm/2 x 37.9mm restrictors. A comparable sized P1 engine would get 3500mmb manifold pressure and 1 x 55.9mm/2 x 39.9mm restrictors.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Duff_44

4400cc maximum, twin-turbos allowed (2000cc petrol engines must use a single turbo in P2). Must use pistons, connecting rods, cylinder heads, and valves from a production engine (10000+ units). 3000mmb manifold pressure and 1 x 53.0mm/2 x 37.9mm restrictors. A comparable sized P1 engine would get 3500mmb manifold pressure and 1 x 55.9mm/2 x 39.9mm restrictors.

That's what the regs currently say but I think it is reasonable to expect some changes before 2011.

[WouterM]

I wonder how deep BMW is involved in this.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by WouterM

I wonder how deep BMW is involved in this.

I reckon they would give the project their blessing, but in all reality this engine seems to be aimed at teams that cant afford a Judd, Honda or Porsche unit.......so I doubt BMW will be involved from a technical or commercial point of view.......but I'm happy to be proven wrong!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by knighty

but in all reality this engine seems to be aimed at teams that cant afford a Judd, Honda or Porsche unit.......

Our teams that want a LMP2 engine that can run reliably for 24 hours

[knighty]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Our teams that want a LMP2 engine that can run reliably for 24 hours

you said that, not me!.....cough....as you all know, I'm a real fan of the LMP2 engine reliability over 24 hrs.......

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Our teams that want a LMP2 engine that can run reliably for 24 hours

Then you sure as heck dont what an engine based off a 'production' engine.

and any 'production' engine that is reliable for 24 hours would be almost double the cost of the 'production' car.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Then you sure as heck dont what an engine based off a 'production' engine.

and any 'production' engine that is reliable for 24 hours would be almost double the cost of the 'production' car.

Well you could always run for twenty four hours in the back of the pack.

[Tom908V12]

Welter Racing should also come in 08 LMP2 world with a diesel/diester V8 probably based on Peugeot engines


But I still wait the presentation of the team that was scheduled for end october but postponed for later...

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

Welter Racing should also come in 08 LMP2 world with a diesel/diester V8 probably based on Peugeot engines


But I still wait the presentation of the team that was scheduled for end october but postponed for later...

you what?.....where did you hear this?.........I thought diesel wasnt yet allowed LMP2.......does anyone know anything about diesel LMP2 regs?.......

[Tom908V12]

I've read that in a thread(in french)on the Endurance-Info forum...

[knighty]

hmmm.....I'll believe it when I see it

But back to the 4.0 LMP2 regs…… if the 3.4 porsche is revving to 10,500......with some rough maths, that would imply for a 4.0 to produce equivalent power, it would need to rev to 8925rpm…….thats still a bit of a screamer in my book!……also, the BMW engine will only be able to use its bare block and head, its still going to need a new flat plane crank, new rods & pistons, plated/linered bores, new cams, valvetrain, dry sump…..by the time they have done all that, its still going to be a pricey bit of kit.