South African Endurance Series

[Mike E]

So, apparently there will be a new 6 hour sportscar race at Phakisa Raceway near Welkom in South Africa on 23rd of February next year.
It seems to be open to just about anyone and anything, including all 4 Le Mans classes. Welkom is more or less in the middle of nowhere, and is likely to be hot in February, but I hope this works out.
The track will include the existing road course and part of the oval, Daytona style.
Maybe Bailey will have a run?

[I Rosputnik]

A bit closely placed to the Bathurst 12 Hours?

[Salamus]

Who's idea is this? Sounds interesting but skeptical.

[Mike E]

Well, these guys have ambition.

http://www.afriod.co.za/events.php

[Purist]

The configuration of the place is rather more like Twin Ring Motegi than Daytona. The road course uses none of the banking of the speedway oval.

I still consider Kyalami to be the real home of South African motorsport, and that place already has a history of sportscar endurance racing.

[Mike E]

Apparently they are going to incorporate part of the banking on the south end of the circuit, which would be a new configuration.
Kyalami used to be great but the current layout is nothing special.

[Purist]

And based on the track layout and elevation changes, the new Kyalami still gets my vote.

See for yourself.

Ultima GTR at Phakisa Raceway (long road course, 2.636 miles, roughly 1:51 lap time=85.5mph average)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6RqHx7VyUo

1992 McLaren/Honda (Ayrton Senna) at Kyalami (and as of 2009, they took the chicane back out of the penultimate corner at Kyalami, 2.648-mile lap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv8zzLVRF9g

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm glad somebody is trying this again for sportscars, but I don't know if it's the right group of people to get it done, and to me, it definitely looks like the wrong track in South Africa to be doing this. I mean, I'm not sure how many places there are at Phakisa where the LMP2s would be able to get by GTs, and at a number of spots, I think it would take some real aggression to even squeeze through traffic in an LMP1.

EDIT: Mike, we'll just have to see. Even if they do add the banking at that end, I don't know how much that will help. Also, the FIA might want a chicane in there somewhere for the LM cars, which could well make it a moot point as far as adding a long, high-speed section to the road course.

It isn't what it was, but Kyalami is still a quick circuit, with great elevation changes, and at roughly 6,000ft, creates a number of altitude-related complications for racing teams; I wish F1 still had a truly high-altitude circuit on its calendar.

[Spyderman]

The "new" Kyalami is a shadow of it's former self.

[Rodger Davies]

in the same way that the 'new' Nurburgring is, but just like that circuit it doesn't make it a bad track in comparison to others.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

in the same way that the 'new' Nurburgring is, but just like that circuit it doesn't make it a bad track in comparison to others.

Isn’t that a bit like saying that type A diabetes is not quite as bad as Cancer?

The truth of the matter is that they took a fantastic track and beat the daylights out of it and turned it into a dull, Mickey Mouse, estrogen laden track. Even if they did worse things to other tracks, it is still painful to have witnessed the rape and pillage that was wrought on that track.

[amidst tundra]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The "new" Kyalami is a shadow of it's former self.

Tilke hasn't been near it has he?

I've watched a little of the South African touring cars on Motors TV. Tracks seem a lil' dull to be honest.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by amidst tundra

Tilke hasn't been near it has he?

I've watched a little of the South African touring cars on Motors TV. Tracks seem a lil' dull to be honest.

South African tracks are for the most part dull yes, I went to Kyalami growing up in South Africa at the age of 4 and 5 for the last F1 races there and don't remember much. But remember watching the Modifieds there in 86 and 87 very well, and the circuit was awesome.

Never been there, but I always thought Welkom was a very odd place to have a racetrack that hosted big events such as MotoGP as it's in the middle of nowhere (mining town).

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by amidst tundra

Tilke hasn't been near it has he?

I've watched a little of the South African touring cars on Motors TV. Tracks seem a lil' dull to be honest.

It is.

[Purist]

I don't disagree, but it's still my first choice among the South African circuits, by quite a margin.

(I have recordings of the South African Grands Prix that were held from 1978-85, so I do know the old circuit. I also have "In-Car 956", in which Derek Bell goes for a few laps around the old Kyalami in his Rothmans Porsche 956.)

[911targa]

Would be glad to see an African team at LM24 later

[Alexander Matveev]

That is great, I will be looking forward to this event. Hope there will be an opportunity to watch it online somewhere - winter months are so good for watching long races.

[The Badger]

Kyalami was once a teriffic track , as was Hockenheim ..... now sadly they dont interest me at all .

Agreed Spyderman .

[amidst tundra]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Kyalami was once a teriffic track , as was Hockenheim ..... now sadly they dont interest me at all .

Agreed Spyderman .

What f***** me off most about Hockenheim was how they tore it all up under some dubious pretext. That track is an utter snoozefest now, the stadium section was never the section most viewers tuned in to see.

I'm not a football fan but "you don't know what you're doing" would seem a fitting anthem for Tilke the FIA and their 'elf and safety boys.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by amidst tundra

What f***** me off most about Hockenheim was how they tore it all up under some dubious pretext. That track is an utter snoozefest now, the stadium section was never the section most viewers tuned in to see.

I'm not a football fan but "you don't know what you're doing" would seem a fitting anthem for Tilke the FIA and their 'elf and safety boys.

What's sad and crazy about what they did to Hockenheim is that one of the main reasons they redeveloped it was to make the track better for the spectators. Most of the overtaking happened in the forest, which also had it's own problems in terms of spectator access, and there were only 45 laps as opposed to now 67 at the Hockenheim Go-Kart Arena. Of course, there are a hell of a lot more tv viewers than spectators but also there were other reasons such as safety and security and other competition, especially from the Lausitzring.

What's crazy about it is that the idiots designed the new circuit (on request from FOM officials) with spectators and fans in mind. In 2000 on the old layout over 120,000 spectators attended the German Grand Prix, in 2002 for the first layout on the new "improved" (according to Bernie's freak show) 95,000 spectators attended. In 2005 this increased to 110,000, so not bad. However, for the 2008 race only 78,000 attended, in 2010 65,000 and this year a sparse crowd of 62,000. So despite designing the new track to be "better for spectators" nobody shows up. Even with a reigning German world champion, Michael Schumacher, Mercedes Factory team and plenty of German drivers.

[Purist]

No, Tilke did NOT get to Kyalami. Kaylami had some similar issues to Riverside, but at Kyalami, they at least still had some land to reconstitute a track on once the developers did their thing.

Kyalami is still the best track in South Africa, or in any of the surrounding countries, to my knowledge, And there still is a track there, unlike Riverside or Oran Park. And if it isn't completely gone already, Jacarepagua probably will be pretty soon.

(Would you guys prefer an African sportscar race on that circuit in Marrakech?)

[adam46]

My opinion is that the Hockenheim track may no longer been up to F1 standards. But surely they could have kept the Long Layout for Endurance/GT/Touring Car Racing?

I mean if you can race an R18 at Le Sarthe then why not the old Hockenheim configuration? I think that if the WEC had existed back then they may have kept it for championships like that, but due to the dodgy state of the Prototype racing scene at that time it may not have been viable to do so. But then again they still had FIA GT!

Now I am drooling over a BES race at old Hockenheim!

And now maybe time to get back on-topic!

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by adam46

But surely they could have kept the Long Layout for Endurance/GT/Touring Car Racing?

Nope, they tore up the tarmac and 'gave it back to nature".....

[GT3.14]

For shame!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

For shame!

A great track ruined.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Well, at least we have great new international circuits like this...


And the FIA and track designers are doing a great job with preserving the character of classic circuits...







Although many of the reasons for the fall of Kyalami were very different than tracks being butchered for Bernie's Circus such as the Hockenheimring.