A Bit Controversial

[Peter Mallett]

Ok then I'm going to ask something that really puzzles me.

Why do people spend a fortune on a car for a track day (or more than one day)?

My point being that I find plodding around a race track under limited rules (no outbraking into corners etc.), without any form of competition a bit of a turn off. I'll grant you it is fun if you take a few mates or sponsors or punters around and try to scare the pants off them (wet days are best for this of course), but as a pastime it seems a bit limited to me.

I much prefer the stress, fun and cut and thrust of a race event.

So tell me more.

[Stephen Green]

Not being a track day person myself Peter I wonder if it could be that repair bills (bodywork especially) are cheaper for track days as the level of 'incidents' tends to be a lot lower. Also I would have thought track day cars dont have to have the same level of safety equipment fitted as your race car?

[garcon]

And of course we're not all global oil magnates like what Pete is...

[Peter Mallett]

Also I would have thought track day cars dont have to have the same level of safety equipment fitted as your race car?

But surely you must have a cage, harness, race seat etc. Therefore the cost of safety preparation must be as much as any touring car.

And of course we're not all global oil magnates like what Pete is...

Nobody is, but that's not why I'm asking.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But surely you must have a cage, harness, race seat etc. Therefore the cost of safety preparation must be as much as any touring car.

No not necessarily. Track Days can be for street cars as well.

People who are spending money on track day cars spend the extras on performance things (suspension, tires, engine) and only on extra safety as they feel necessary (and as their track day club or org requires).

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

So you can put more power onto the road but not increase the safety. Fair enough. Still loosing the point though.

Carry on.

[paul-collins]

An officemate says his goal is to get the most out of his car while maintaining a semblance of roadworthiness. He says people in his car club have track cars that are so modded that they can't run them on the road - not from a safety standpoint, but because they're too low, stiff, have too expensive tires etc.

Having kids tends to take you out of the loop, so my car would have to still be streetable. Just how much weight can I save by removing the booster seats?

[Mackmot]

you need to throw the kids out first

[dtype38]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

....something that really puzzles me. ..I find plodding around a race track under limited rules [ ] a bit of a turn off. ....as a pastime it seems a bit limited to me. I much prefer the stress, fun and cut and thrust of a race event.

I think you sort of answered your own question there. People spend lots on track day cars for good reasons - from their own perspective. Just not reasons that would necessarily make any sense to you. Example: While back a mate bought a Pug 1.9 with a friend as a track day car. Idea was to go have a bit of fun on the odd weekend or evening without any committment or being tied to dates like people who do actual racing. Also meant he could take the car out completely standard except for a harness and hand held extinguisher. Few months later they were having great fun but had met some people with similar but more trick cars who were doing better lap times. So they spent some money on tuning bits and tyres and stuff and improved their times. But then they found they could nearly keep up with some quite flash machinery. So they spent some more and went out to play with the Porsches and the like. It was very exciting. Equation : Money spent on car = more excitement! So it went on... there was the full race engine, the fully mapped ignition and injection, the sequential box.... and on, and on... slicks, body stiffening, suspension work After three or four years my mate said they could embarrass Ferraris and Lambos with their little pug. He was very pleased. Somewhat lighter in the wallet dept, but money well spent in his opinion

Any of this make any sense

[garcon]

A couple of years ago I had a relatively standard Subaru Impreza Turbo. It had a sports exhaust and an ITG air filter, but that was about it. No major engine mods, no super hard suspension, no big brakes with racing pads. I did maybe half a dozen track days in it and enjoyed every minute. Not through particularly great lap times (I never had anyone time them... honest! ), but just through finding a better line at a particular corner, or holding a nice four wheel slide without spinning - things that regular(ish) racers tend to take for granted.

As for spending £££'s on a trackday car, I stand by what a friendly race tech once said to me. "If you want to get quicker, spend your money on a proper seat and harness and a few hours tuition. That'll find you a hell of alot more time than any amount of cash you think you want to spend on modding the car."

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by garcon

As for spending £££'s on a trackday car, I stand by what a friendly race tech once said to me. "If you want to get quicker, spend your money on a proper seat and harness and a few hours tuition. That'll find you a hell of alot more time than any amount of cash you think you want to spend on modding the car."

Never a truer word spoken.

This is interesting. Carry on

[kickstart]

I would guess part of the attraction of track days compared to racing is that there is much less of the dreaded red tape, just turn up and go.

[Kicking-back]

What's the situation with insurance?

Most motor insurance says you mustn't race or rally your car - does that include trackdays?

[Dan Friel]

In the vast majority of cases, motor insurance will NOT cover you on a track day. Read the small print carefully!

People developing cars solely for track day does appear slightly strange, but perhaps some people don't like the pressure of a race meeting?? Why have a stressful day?

However, if i had the cash - i know what i'd be doing!

[Hobson]

Originally Posted by Dan Friel

People developing cars solely for track day does appear slightly strange, but perhaps some people don't like the pressure of a race meeting?? Why have a stressful day?

Theres also the fact that for racing, 99% of cars have to be built to rules and regulations, whereas with track cars, the only regulation is how big your wallet is.

[Steve Wilkinson]

There are more and more TRACK DAY only cars appearing. Some like the Westfield XTR2 are also being Sprinted, Hillclimbed and Raced. However I don't think there are enough people from these disciplines going to track days to recruit competitors.
Some Track Days allow full race cars out in a seperate session and it is at these such events that there are a lot of racers testing - Liverpool Motor Club's Aintree Track Days for example.

I can understand the initial draw of the track day scene. Especially as you can drive round some pretty decent tracks - Knockhill, Donington, Croft, Castle Combe, etc. However I think I would miss the competetive element if I abandonded sprints and hillclimbs for track days.

I think more motoring clubs should be making a bigger effort to recruit from the track day crowd.

[dtype38]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

I think more motoring clubs should be making a bigger effort to recruit from the track day crowd.

Our motoring club, the Jaguar Enthusiasts' Club, run both track days and full race meetings. At the track days, people are encouraged to bring their road cars along to have fun, but race cars are also encouraged to attend to do a bit of testing (in separate sessions of course). Usually ARDS courses are also run for the "trainee" race drivers. This gets people who are thinking of going racing together with drivers at all levels and can often get a trip round the track in one of the race cars. All in all its a great system for recruiting new drivers and has been very successful for our club.

[Anuauto]

Rightly or wrongly, track days are perceived by actual competitors as taking new venues away from the sport. Countless places that have been looked at as potential new sprint venues are found to have already committed to "trackdays" at lower noise limits than MSA-authorised speed events and refuse to risk upsetting locals by even trying a sprint.
The risk of body contact puts off most of those who dont want to race - its not the basic running costs, as there's not much to chose between some race and speed events in value for money/track time? (and single venue tarmac rallies beat both on that score and there's a passenger to share costs). Most of us cant see the point of trackdays that stop you if you take it to the limit but I guess its the inevitable result of the nanny state on the roads these days - and the result of FIA homologation regs that have produced Imprezzas, Evos etc in large numbers for the public.
Make no mistake, however, track days are slowly killing grass roots "fast" motorsport with the venue issue. That has massive implcations in the longer term.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by Anuauto

Rightly or wrongly, track days are perceived by actual competitors as taking new venues away from the sport.

Who pays for the venues? If it's racing clubs I can see your point, but if it's private then it's the owner's business, and if it's public then the public has the right to use it too. Are we to only be allowed in as spectators?

[Steve Wilkinson]

The deal between Rockingham and BMW for the latter to use the former as a BMW owners track day venue has meant the potential for the club competitors to get onto the in-field track has gone up in corporate smoke.
With BMW paying over the odds to secure the venue it is now economically impossible to run a sprint at this track.

Gladly other people act in the interest of the motor racing competitors.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Tubthumped - great to see that the competitive urge has taken you into the Speedscene. I really do believe it is the logical pogression for the Track Day fans. After all you are not permitted to time your runs at track days are you? So Hillclimbs and Sprints are the first step on the ladder.

[paul-collins]

Not only insurance, but warranty is something that has to be considered.

You can usually buy track day insurance, though.

[tubthumped]

I have a Mk2 Golf that's built for track days, and remains my daily driver.

Why do i do track days and not competative racing?

Quite simple, cash. I cannot afford to buy another car for road and turn my Golf into a full on track race car. I cannot afford to run a car in a race series. And i cannot spare the time to do it either.

However, i CAN afford to book a £100 track day, slap on some cheap Michelin Slicks and blast around a race track at high speeds and pushing my own ability, and that of the car.


However - i will be entering my Golf in a sprint or hillclimb series this year.

[tubthumped]

Indded, and it seems quite a cheap thing to go into.

Although, compare a £60-£80 Sprint/Hillclimb entry fee where you get say 6, 1 minute runs. And a day at Donington for £90 where you get 6 x 30 minute sessions.
It's not competative, but you can see where the appeal is surely?

As for timing things, I do time my videos after track days though, to see how i've improved - but not on the day. Can lead to a telling off and can lead to acidents from pushing yourself.

[HiRich]

I think most of our 'excuses' have been covered:
- Absolute cost (prepping car, trailer, tow car, etc.)
- Value for money (tracktime per pound is much higher)
- Wish to maintain the car as daily driver
- Garage space/facilities
- Commitment to a series (overall time away from beer and family, number of committed weekends)
- Flexibility
- And importantly, I drive at my speeds, for fun rather than time. On a decent trackday, I can be reasonably confident that any damage will be self-inflicted.
Which of these apply depends on personal situation.

However, the recruitment of trackday people into competition is pretty pathetic, even though they are prime prospects. I looked at this in detail for a project that I've sadly had to can. The opportunity and mechanics are easy to define, but (with very few beacons) no-one wants to tackle it.

As an example, I regularly assist my brother (historics) and a mate (Caterham Owners Sprint Championship). I use all the excuses above. Then Graham (the co-ordinator) asked why I don't share the Se7en with my mate. £200 would get me my licence, club membership and first entry - it would almost be worth that for my mate to pay me to warm up the tyres! It hadn't dawned on either of us. One simple question has amost confirmed an extra entrant/customer.