Too many GP's?

Peat · 13 Sep 2012, 08:36 (Ref:3135242)

Hi all,

I wanted to make a poll, but can't for the life of me work out how to make one on here......

Anyway, last weekend i missed a live GP for the first time in a long while. And it was out of choice.

I went away for the weekend. In the planning stages, i had tried to work it around the calender but due to other people's commitments etc, it became clear that the only way we could sort something out would be if i jumped on the grenade and missed the race.

It played on my mind, i thought it would be awful, knowing that a race was going on and i WASN'T watching it. However, i come away from the weekend as a changed man. I managed to get home and watch the race that evening, but blow me down, i had a decent Sunday!

The calender is so congested now that for the committed fan, you have to surrender so many weekends that you miss out on real-life.

16-18 rounds was fine. 20 is too many.

I think Bernie is in danger of doing 'a NASCAR' and having so many rounds that people won't mind about missing a round or 2, thus weakening the product significantly.

Greem · 13 Sep 2012, 09:07 (Ref:3135269)

My wife and I used to joke that she could make me miss one race per year... and then I got involved in motorsport myself, so now I'm lucky if I see half the races in a year live!

Anyway - NASCAR, with a billion races a year, still manage to get 100,000+ bums on seats at every single one in what is essentially a single market. I don't think you can successfully argue that their product is weakened at all by having as many races on the calendar as they do.

I would argue that having too many F1 races (and I'm not defining "too many" with a number) simply takes the shine off F1 in some people's eyes by it being too frequent, and therefore no longer special. It becomes mundane, ordinary, every day racing rather than an aspirational event.

formerf1champ · 13 Sep 2012, 09:16 (Ref:3135275)

Yes, there are too many GP's. In fact, even 16 is a lot for a series. If it were up to me, there's be 12-14 races (think of all the whinging if it were to happen!). 12-14 from my pov, is in the range where a driver has to maintain a high standard of driving for a long time and, at the same time, where every race counts. To add to my point, Hamilton/Mclaren, haven't been as good as Alonso this year for the whole 2/3's of the season so far, but are every chance of running down Alonso by the end of the year.

JamesH · 13 Sep 2012, 13:19 (Ref:3135387)

Quote:

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Yes, there are too many GP's. In fact, even 16 is a lot for a series. If it were up to me, there's be 12-14 races (think of all the whinging if it were to happen!). 12-14 from my pov, is in the range where a driver has to maintain a high standard of driving for a long time and, at the same time, where every race counts. To add to my point, Hamilton/Mclaren, haven't been as good as Alonso this year for the whole 2/3's of the season so far, but are every chance of running down Alonso by the end of the year.

And if he does, he will deserve the WDC. Because he scored more points over the season (however many races it has). That's how it works.

formerf1champ · 14 Sep 2012, 12:17 (Ref:3135872)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesH

And if he does, he will deserve the WDC. Because he scored more points over the season (however many races it has). That's how it works.

No, Alonso has established himself as the best driver this season. Whether or not he wins the title is another story. Say Hamilton does run Alonso down, Hamilton will have needed to take advantage of a stronger car and and a long season. There's almost half an old season left!

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

im sort of at the saturation point myself and i certainly would not want more races at the expense of teams alternating race crews and more street circuits.

although getting France and Turkey back on the calendar while losing Valencia works for me.

France, I agree. Turkey? No way. There's no motorsport culture over there. They shouldn't be hosting a GP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

Not what i was getting at.

What i mean to say is, that as a 'die-hard' fan, last weekend opened to my eyes to a world where missing the GP wasn't all that bad. If i am willing to skip another one in the future, then what's to say that i won't miss more and start to drift off? That's one less pair of eyes looking at the moveable advertising hoardings.

Point is, if i'm thinking this, what are less dedicated people doing?

Are you a "die-hard" fan of F1 or motor racing?

If you/others stop paying attention to the F1 season/s, it will still continue. F1 was around before you paid attention to it. It's no big deal, it'll still be there when you come back to it

Do you actually pay attention, or even care, about the advertising?

Razzzor · 20 Sep 2012, 22:11 (Ref:3139322)

I see Singapore and Japan aren't yet contracted for 2013? That would be ridiculous if they weren't included.

Get rid of the processional Hungary, that places sucks.

Anything over 20 is too many imo. 19-20 is where it should be.

This isn't Nascrap anyway, or even Indycar - the best driver/team usually wins the title. 20 races instead of 14 will just reinforce that. Nascar it'll just be a pick of whatever driver out of 12 is most consistent in the chase. Absurd. But at least it's interesting for the fans.

And Will Power has proven 3 times that Indycar is too random for the top guy to be sure of winning the title.

Marbot · 21 Sep 2012, 00:51 (Ref:3139382)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razzzor

And Will Power has proven 3 times that Indycar is too random for the top guy to be sure of winning the title.

Perhaps if all of the other drivers actually thought that there was indeed a "top guy", then they needn't bother turning up?

**bella** · 21 Sep 2012, 10:09 (Ref:3139554)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Get rid of the processional Hungary, that places sucks.

yeah, because the hundreds of thousands of people who turn out over the weekend to support the teams, drivers and sport as a whole are completely irrelevant. it's one of the best places to watch a f1 race on the entire calendar - i for one am thankful it's one of bernie's (and the teams) favourites and will be there for a long time.

Peat · 21 Sep 2012, 05:34 (Ref:3139456)

Quote:

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Are you a "die-hard" fan of F1 or motor racing?

As with many, it started with F1 (in my case, the mid 90's) but i quickly branched out into the wider world of racing and i guess i'm more of a sportscar guy now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

If you/others stop paying attention to the F1 season/s, it will still continue. F1 was around before you paid attention to it. It's no big deal, it'll still be there when you come back to it

True. But i still think it's not a good thing if your product goes from an essential to an optional. I am not naive enough to think that F1 'needs' me and, thinking about it, considering that my answer to the below quote is a resounding 'NO', am i even the kind of person F1 'wants' anymore?

Quote:

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Do you actually pay attention, or even care, about the advertising?

All i know, is that i still want to watch every race. But what with my other interests/life circumstances, i am finding increasingly harder to do that. Increasing the number of races only compounds it. So, this thread is completely selfish, i know. But there are a fair few people who agree.

formerf1champ · 24 Sep 2012, 10:37 (Ref:3140819)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

True. But i still think it's not a good thing if your product goes from an essential to an optional. I am not naive enough to think that F1 'needs' me and, thinking about it, considering that my answer to the below quote is a resounding 'NO', am i even the kind of person F1 'wants' anymore?

Tbh, I don't think the F1 community knows what it is anymore, let alone if it knows it wants you. An indicator of this is to look at their website...

http://www.formula1.com/teams_and_drivers/teams/

You look at that list. it's got the team logo, the face of each driver and a picture of the motorhome! Why is that there??? where's the picture of the car?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

All i know, is that i still want to watch every race. But what with my other interests/life circumstances, i am finding increasingly harder to do that. Increasing the number of races only compounds it. So, this thread is completely selfish, i know. But there are a fair few people who agree.

I suspect it's sublte change you've noticed. Soon you may barely watch the season!

**Born Racer** · 13 Sep 2012, 10:36 (Ref:3135313)

I think there are perhaps a few too many. Maybe knock it down to 18. It would be a nice compromise between too many Grands Prix and the need for lots of venues.

Spritle · 13 Sep 2012, 11:50 (Ref:3135346)

Maybe we all should submit our future holiday plans to the FIA well in advance of the official F1 calendar being released so they can work around us...

Peat · 13 Sep 2012, 11:58 (Ref:3135349)

Not what i was getting at.

What i mean to say is, that as a 'die-hard' fan, last weekend opened to my eyes to a world where missing the GP wasn't all that bad. If i am willing to skip another one in the future, then what's to say that i won't miss more and start to drift off? That's one less pair of eyes looking at the moveable advertising hoardings.

Point is, if i'm thinking this, what are less dedicated people doing?

nicanary · 13 Sep 2012, 12:08 (Ref:3135358)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

Not what i was getting at.

What i mean to say is, that as a 'die-hard' fan, last weekend opened to my eyes to a world where missing the GP wasn't all that bad. If i am willing to skip another one in the future, then what's to say that i won't miss more and start to drift off? That's one less pair of eyes looking at the moveable advertising hoardings.

Point is, if i'm thinking this, what are less dedicated people doing?

This is interesting - it makes you wonder whether you were previously watching out of habit, rather than desire. Is F1 in fact more boring than we're prepared to admit? Or is it overload?

Spritle · 13 Sep 2012, 12:39 (Ref:3135373)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

Point is, if i'm thinking this, what are less dedicated people doing?

I watch every race I can live, and look forward to every one I see but the DVR covers me when I am on holiday. For example I have watched Monaco, (which I love BTW) for years and years days later because of a standing commitment to have a blast with my mates camping & fishing. I have written Prince Albert regarding a date change but he doesn't respond.

That being said, your point makes me wonder about the long term commitment of less dedicated fans in new F1 venues like the US where 80% of the races are on TV at times when folks are sleeping. Will they care about the races held elsewhere and get up to watch them live and does it matter if they don't?

Greem · 13 Sep 2012, 13:23 (Ref:3135388)

Interestingly I don't think it's a question we on Tenths can answer. Regarding watching on TV, we are not "average" F1 fans, we're the loons who get up at all hours to watch cars go round in circles (or not if it rains too heavily).

I conservatively estimate that until I started marshalling a few years ago I had watched somewhere between 70% and 80% of *all* the races broadcast on British TV since 1982; whether broadcast live or as some form of delayed/highlights package which I watched when it first went out. The percentage got a lot higher from around 1997 - I watched every minute of every race* from 1997 to 2003 when, in defiance of all logic, I became a dad.

So, assuming that the real hardcore fans amount to a small percentage of the viewing public - how many races a year do the non hardcore F1 viewers watch? There must be some marketing agency somewhere that has that sort of detail - the question is, who, and how do we get to it?

*except for ITV's ad breaks, obviously

NaBUru38 · 13 Sep 2012, 16:51 (Ref:3135464)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

16-18 rounds was fine. 20 is too many.

I agree. My problem is that so many races makes it difficult to follow other championships. Actually, this year I've seen very few F1 races. So many asian races doesn't help much, it's early morning here.

12-14 Grands Prix would be impossibly low because now it's a true world championship. They should race in Europe 7-8 times, Americas 3-4 times, and Asia Pacific 6 times.

Thaw Daggerslash · 13 Sep 2012, 17:00 (Ref:3135471)

You don't HAVE to watch them. You don't HAVE to watch them live, either.

So no, there isn't. How it is now is fine for me.

Plus who gives a monkey's what the "casual fan" thinks? F1 is always going on about the "casual fan" - they brought in DRS, KERS, to improve the show. Why not forget what they care, and pay more attention to the die-hard fans?

pach233 · 13 Sep 2012, 18:17 (Ref:3135509)

I can't remember the last time I missed an F1 race but I've probably watched less than 20% of the races the last 5 years live. Being in the U.S. most of the races are over by the time I'm waking up on Sunday morning and the DVR has allwed me to wake up later and still watch the race when I want! Plus, being in the U.S. means that watching recorded races allows me to fast forward through the adverts that Speed shows. Usually I wake up and watch it right away so I'm only 2 or 3 hours behind but on busy Sundays I may not get to the race until the evening or the next day. I guess I'm just used to not watching the race live and it doesn't bother me one bit. 20 races is fine with me, I'm happier with more racing. I imagine it's got to be tough on the crews, engineers team personnel, media etc.

NaBUru38 · 13 Sep 2012, 18:51 (Ref:3135523)

DVRs are expensive here.

**Bononi** · 13 Sep 2012, 19:20 (Ref:3135540)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

I wanted to make a poll, but can't for the life of me work out how to make one on here......

I'm sorry but you can't. If you really want it, PM me with the options and I can set up one for you.

Your F1 mod.

snowdog140 · 1 Oct 2012, 05:16 (Ref:3144438)

Maybe one way around it would be to have a calendar like they had with the WRC, where they rotate rounds every year? That way we'd get to see different tracks every year, organisers would keep costs down with only having to host a round every two years, and there wouldn't be as many rounds any more. Personally I think more is better, but just my opinion, of course.

**bella** · 13 Sep 2012, 19:56 (Ref:3135564)

i think there are too many races, definitely. i reckon the sweet spot is around 14-16 races.

f1 is too available now, it has become a daily soap rather than a weekly drama. the constant generation of news, regardless of whether there IS news or not is exhausting, and the constant stream of irrelevant races is dull. instead of being like hourly trains - it's a pain in the backside if you miss one because it's ages till the next one - it's like the tube. don't worry, there'll be another along shortly.

i think they need to look at the product. what is it? a quality, exciting event or a cheap commodity?

chillibowl · 13 Sep 2012, 20:13 (Ref:3135579)

im sort of at the saturation point myself and i certainly would not want more races at the expense of teams alternating race crews and more street circuits.

although getting France and Turkey back on the calendar while losing Valencia works for me.

Peat · 14 Sep 2012, 11:06 (Ref:3135834)

'Saturation' - good choice of word.

Bella makes good points too. Certainly how i feel.

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