Michelin makes new tyres for Monza...

[Sodemo]

Just read on Autosport.com that Michelin has made new tyres for Williams / Mclaren to use at Monza, they apparently tested them today (wed).

[ghinzani]

Lets hope they stick it to those bad losers at Ferrari - Michelin top6 would be nice!!

[ralf fan]

So that means.....they arent going to boycott??
Well thats good, at least ther'll be a fight for the title though ,now the advantage seems to be with Ferrari

[ralf fan]

Terrible descsion by the FIA ...to change the rules 3 races before the end!!

[shiny side up!]

I think all the boycott talk was just to try to scare the FIA into waiting until after the season to change the scrutineering...

[Inigo Montoya]

Ahhh so the cheaters have finally admitted their crimes. Good on them! I still think that BS will be pummeled.

[Phoenix1]

Best thing about this new tire is McLaren just went on it, hope Ferrari shot themselves in foot and helped McLaren/Williams etc... (Michelin in italics)

http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=24448&s=5

1 David Coulthard (McLaren-Mercedes) 1m21.533s 50
2 Kimi Raikkonen (McLaren-Mercedes) 1m21.750s 78
3 Heinz-Harald Frentzen (Sauber-Petronas) 1m22.125s 78
4 Michael Schumacher (Ferrari) 1m22.148s 59
5 Juan Pablo Montoya (Williams-BMW) 1m22.150 28
6 Luca Badoer (Ferrari) 1m22.164 64
7 Jacques Villeneuve (BAR-Honda) 1m22.183 136
8 Rubens Barrichello (Ferrari) 1m22.238 34
9 Jarno Trulli (Renault) 1m22.413 82
10 Jenson Button (BAR-Honda) 1m22.497 79

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya
Ahhh so the cheaters have finally admitted their crimes.

The cheater? Are you kidding? Michelin runner just don't need any risk to fight with 'FIA-Ferrari' collaboration...

[climb]

I just can't believe they made new tires in a few days; IMHO they simply had the two types ready, the first to get advantage, the second in case of their "astute" manoeuvre being discovered!

[Hungary 89]

Personally it does get on my wick that everytime Ferrari find themselves on the back foot they throw effort into finding something illegal on there competitors car, Remember Mclaren's extra brake pedal a brilliant idea in my opinion controlled by the driver (not electronics) passed by Charlie Whiting but made illegal by Ferrari, Why can't Ferrari just face that after two years of domination the pendulum has swung away a bit. Just Knuckle down and sort your own car and stop nit picking at others!

[Valve Bounce]

The new tyres are 16mm narrower, and I suspect that it will merely serve to make the Michelin shod cars faster while having little effect on the corners.

[GTV27]

all this hoohar over 16 ******* mm

this is what happens when the rulemakers are less professional than the teams

at least it proves that Ferarri are getting desparate hehehehehehe revenge is schweeeeeet

[climb]

Hungary 89: I understand that Ferrari have often unpleasant behaviors, but it's also true that their opponents cheat when necessary: do you remember beryllium affair in 2000?
About Michelin we have to admit they're very astute: in fact their cars still run on slick tyres for most f the races!

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
The new tyres are 16mm narrower, and I suspect that it will merely serve to make the Michelin shod cars faster while having little effect on the corners.

If this was the case I am sure Michelin would be racing the new spec. tyres already!

[Adam43]

Originally posted by climb
do you remember beryllium affair in 2000?

Was there any cheating here? Mercedes used it and then it was banned, so Mercedes stopped using it. There was no overlap AFAIK.

[Glen]

No Adam - you have to half-remember and then assume, blinkeredly, that Ferrari somehow re-wrote the rules themselves. Play the game - everything evil in the world is down to Ferrari, remember?

[twig]

It's funny that Ferrari admitted to knowing about this information (about the illegal tyres) Michelin were useing, but used the excuse that they didnt have enough proof.

In other words, BS were still faster than the Michelin shod cars - Then come Hungary, MS finished an honest 8th - Lets bring out the proof Hiroshi Yasukawa, because now we just can't take it any more!

But remember the TC use by Ferrari? If it were Ferrari using the illegal Michelins, then they would let the other tyre companies use the same illegal shape, as it would be too hard to .....ah....... measure and prove that it is occuring and it's illegal

[Hungary 89]

I think cheating is a harsh word to use in this respect its just exploiting perceved loop holes in the rules The measurements were taken on brand new tyres so Michelin made tyres thay complied with the dimensional requirements at that time. Ferrari have asked for clarification and the loop hole has now closed. As an engineer I have respect for the guys who find these loop holes by thinking outside the box. I just feel that in a number of instances it's Sour grapes by Ferrari because they didn't think of it first.

[Hungary 89]

Glen What is your reading of the Berylium issue? as I must admit that I thought it went as Adam said it did

Is there more to it that I was not aware of?

[Glen]

No - that's pretty much my recall of it. It is fair enough to reflect and decide that the outcome ended up favouring Ferrari (because the Mercedes was so good previous to the ruling) but I don't remember Ferrari getting McLaren "banned", which seems to be some people's preferred way of looking back at it. There were also some genuine safety concerns too, as well as issues of escalating expense.

[climb]

Some more example of nice behaviours by ferrari's opponents?
- 1999, Malaysia: 1-2 for Ferrari but an "officer" who proved close to Macs claimed two deflectors were 1mm longer than the rules permitted, and ferrari were disqualified: strangely, when those same deflectors were measured by people not close to Macs, they were perfectly regular.
- 2003 Brazil: Fisi gets a fantastic win, but people who work for a Mclaren sponsor state that the winner was casually a McLaren driver; once more, further verification show that it wasn't true...

Two simple facts just to show that here we don't have a clash between devils (Ferrari) and angels (the others), just opponents who don't express any longer a barely inter-squads competition, but also the one between word car manufacturers, who carries to harder and more hazardous manoeuvres.
The stake on the line is much higher and we have to expect it

[Kenny W.]

Maybe I'm biased but I remember that Ferrari appealed against berrilium being used on health grounds, and the bargeboards were 5mm out of spec until Ferrari redesigned the FIA measuring device to measure on a different plane.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by climb
- 1999, Malaysia
- 2003 Brazil

In Malaysia 1999 the barge boards weren't too big, however they had a missing element that made them outside the required dimensions. It was actually a bit missing (the 'shadow' part). None of the proposed irregularities was 1mm, it was always more. Even Ross Brawn said so in a press conference. I remember it with the ruler and the barge board. IIRC it was originally out by about 15mm. This was then remeasured and was less than 10mm, which was then decide this was within a tolerence.

Brazil 2003. McLaren thought they had won. Their intepretation of the rules was correct. However the timers changed their mind over which lap the red had been thrown, hence using the same rule produced a different winner. McLaren was the first to congratulate Fisi and Jordan.

Quite what you r point is I don't know. I see nothing in either moment to think bad about Ferrari or McLaren or any other team.

[avsfan733]

why is it seem that the general feeling is that it is not ok for Ferrari to cheat, but its also not ok for them to call others cheaters either? Some people seem to be implying in one sentence that its ok for others to cheat because Ferrari does, and the next sentence voices their concerns about Ferrari cheating!

[climb]

Adam,
I offered on purpose an extremistic view of these facts (regardless your precise analisys of those two "incidents", I just reported what was the general feeling in Italy about) to show (and you helped me) that seeing monsters here or there is not an intelligent way to approach the problem of rule interpretation.
As you slightly confirmed on another thread, there is too much rage now, towards Ferrari.
Starting from a respectable point (diasgree with FIA new interpretation) some have gone far beyond the facts, the way you see.
I just meant to provoke a cooling reaction, that is what you did, I hope it'll work.