Tom owns the lot/Should it be stopped? (merged)

[billy bigtime]

In one of the worst kept secrets(since Tricky announced it in January and was nearly hung for it) AA has finally confirmed that Uncle Tom owns HRT and Toll/HSV. So much for the BS of the last 6 months. What a joke.

[HRT433]

I honestly don't care who owns them, but I'll wait for an official confirmation.

I wasn't aware that the words "AutoAction" and "confirmed" were allowed in the same sentence....or is it that like many other things there are exceptions...

[L34]

Originally Posted by billy bigtime

In one of the worst kept secrets(since Tricky announced it in January and was nearly hung for it) AA has finally confirmed that Uncle Tom owns HRT and Toll/HSV. So much for the BS of the last 6 months. What a joke.

Billy

How much did Skaifey sell to Uncle Tom for?

I wonder what the loss/profit was

I wonder if Todd will now get a car deserving his talents.

[v8babe]

Guys give 'em some credit at AA ... just because of crap that went on in the past doesn't mean it's like that now.

You should read through the pages of MNews, you'll find a hell of a lot more hogwash and made up stories there, but they seem to get away with it...

[6.213km]

Originally Posted by billy bigtime

In one of the worst kept secrets(since Tricky announced it in January and was nearly hung for it) AA has finally confirmed that Uncle Tom owns HRT and Toll/HSV. So much for the BS of the last 6 months. What a joke.

Who really cares who owns what. In the end there are two HRT cars and two Toll cars running around a racing circuit. As long as they are competitive and keeping the Ford boys honest then good. Both sides need strong cars to keep the competition healthy. I think if you asked the average punter who owns the cars they'd look at you and say, what does it matter...

Average punter / race fan wants to see Holdens race Fords, the fact the Holden teams are structured differently doesnt matter because they havent broken any rules.

When it was first announced that HRT/Toll were grouped there were many people jumping up & down saying they got their just deserved like it was a bad thing... it has proven not to be such a bad thing so far.. and like i said, average punter doesn't care if John Kelly, Mark Skaife or Tom Walkinshaw are the owners, they care about seeing their drivers on track racing to win a motor race.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by 6.213km

Who really cares who owns what. In the end there are two HRT cars and two Toll cars running around a racing circuit. As long as they are competitive and keeping the Ford boys honest then good. Both sides need strong cars to keep the competition healthy. I think if you asked the average punter who owns the cars they'd look at you and say, what does it matter...

Average punter / race fan wants to see Holdens race Fords, the fact the Holden teams are structured differently doesnt matter because they havent broken any rules.

When it was first announced that HRT/Toll were grouped there were many people jumping up & down saying they got their just deserved like it was a bad thing... it has proven not to be such a bad thing so far.. and like i said, average punter doesn't care if John Kelly, Mark Skaife or Tom Walkinshaw are the owners, they care about seeing their drivers on track racing to win a motor race.

Did you actually ask Average Punter if that was his view.:

[Average Punter]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Did you actually ask Average Punter if that was his view.:

I asked him.

He said that he didn't really care about the ownership stuff either. As long as they were honest about it...

Remember the FTR/Glenn Seton Racing debacle?
Or the whole 00Motorsport/Gibson/Forbes lie?
Or the "Mark Skaife owns HRT" one?

This is no different.

Just tell us the damn truth.....

And by the way. It's not data sharing that is making Tander's car a jet.
Just a bloody good motor.

[Chatters]

But you have to admit, having possibly the top two Holden teams sharing their data is going to give them a bit of a stranglehold of the top Holden team.

Are teams like SBR and 888 allowed to share data because they use a lot of the same components?

[6.213km]

Originally Posted by Chatters

Are teams like SBR and 888 allowed to share data because they use a lot of the same components?

If Uncle Ross & Uncle Jim come to an agreement with Cousin Roland & Cousin Campbell to be grouped, then yes, of course they could. Whether this would suit these teams is another kettle of fish, but the rule is the same for everyone. FPR is in a situation where, if they felt it useful, could use the Britek Motorsport cars to collect data at race meetings due to their grouping... but they don't. Works for some & not others.

[leaso]

I dont care either but the data sharing that goes on between the teams at a race meeting needs to be shut down bit unfar that the HRT and HSV teams have 4 cars to get data from on the weekends.

Effectively this give both team double the amount of practise time than any other team out there and this just aint on

[Alan Jones]

Originally Posted by leaso

I dont care either but the data sharing that goes on between the teams at a race meeting needs to be shut down bit unfar that the HRT and HSV teams have 4 cars to get data from on the weekends.

Effectively this give both team double the amount of practise time than any other team out there and this just aint on

Agreed, I was amazed when it was announced earlier in the season on RPM. I guess it's within the rules, or we'd probably have seen more teams complain about it.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by leaso

I dont care either but the data sharing that goes on between the teams at a race meeting needs to be shut down bit unfar that the HRT and HSV teams have 4 cars to get data from on the weekends.

Effectively this give both team double the amount of practise time than any other team out there and this just aint on

Theyve got half as many test days though. Who's to say also, that on a particular race weekend that theres that much data sharing going on? Its one thing away from the racetrack when the cars are being developed to share data to improve both teams, but i wouldnt be surprised that in the competitive environment of each race, each team might keep to themselves and be willing to battle on track

[stmorri]

Originally Posted by leaso

I dont care either but the data sharing that goes on between the teams at a race meeting needs to be shut down bit unfar that the HRT and HSV teams have 4 cars to get data from on the weekends.

Effectively this give both team double the amount of practise time than any other team out there and this just aint on

leaso, you just stole my thunder! They may be only able to use 2 cars on test days but they have 4 cars on race weekends from which they can gather data. It's time teams such as these were only allowed to have 1 car on test days.

[RotorFan]

Originally Posted by leaso

I dont care either but the data sharing that goes on between the teams at a race meeting needs to be shut down bit unfar that the HRT and HSV teams have 4 cars to get data from on the weekends.

Effectively this give both team double the amount of practise time than any other team out there and this just aint on

You're confused. Thats the whole point of succumbing to being grouped, to share data. If not they wouldn't be together.

Originally Posted by leaso

Urm I dont know maybe the data cable that goes from one pit to the other.

Each driver's team has full access to the other 3 cars info. In practise if one car is off the money they look at the data of the car that is on it.

The test days half of the other teams was the right move Larry perkins had the same thing happen to him couple of years back but at least they never data shared during a meeting. Since they are one team with four cars with the data sharing so blatent they should get all the data needed from running the same omunt of test time as any other 2 car team

How do you know Larry didn't do any data sharing?

How does blatant-ness come into it? They don't need to conceal it, they are completely permitted to data-share. If not a wire then they could use wireless. Would you prefer them to data share in secret?

Originally Posted by Chatters

But you have to admit, having possibly the top two Holden teams sharing their data is going to give them a bit of a stranglehold of the top Holden team.

Are teams like SBR and 888 allowed to share data because they use a lot of the same components?

No they aren't grouped. Simple.


Gosh. How hard is it to understand? They are grouped so that they can share data. It isn't incidental to the grouping, its because of the grouping that they can!

Constantly you see this - teams get punished for applying strategy to racing. Thats part of motorsport.

[pete55]

Apparently Tom Walkinshaw is toying with the idea of using his eight Bathurst drivers to the best advantage in the coming enduros by perhaps putting Skaife with Tander and have the two Kellys together. This i feel is going against the spirit of the championship. Shouldn't the nominated driver for the car entered in the championship have to run the enduros in his own car. Surely the championship should have more meaning to the drivers in that they did it in their own car and if they did beat their team mate it would be doubly satisfying.
Maybe it is time to have a one driver championship with Sandown and Bathurst being stand alone races and those circuits to also have a sprint round race as well. Bathurst could be a 300k one driver race maybe held at Easter and Sandown could have the 3 race round in the current date and have the enduro race later in the year. To cater for this all the sprint rounds should be completed before the enduro rounds start.
As you should know these sprint rounds are not my favourites but i think something has to be done.

[Pro Racer]

make bathurst not part of the championship again that way you would have every man and his dog trying to win the big one instead of conserving points. and just have 1 enduro in sandown and have bathurst after the last round.

[FPV GTHO]

What youre complaining about is already in place with the regular team mates teaming in a single car. If TW wants to stick his HSV drivers with his HRT drivers, then good on him if he thinks he can benefit. So long as the 2 teams are grouped together for testing im willing to give them this one

[Boxy]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

So long as the 2 teams are grouped together for testing im willing to give them this one

Agreed. If they are considered one 'team', then they have every right to mix their pairings.
In saying that, I really don't see any need to alter the current HRT/HSV arrangement. I mean, MS & TK cleaned up last year, and surely GT & RK would make a formidable force come enduro time...
Maybe Mr Skaife is aiming to win the most Bathursts using different co-drivers

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Boxy

Agreed. If they are considered one 'team', then they have every right to mix their pairings.

I agree, lets even go as far as bringing back cross enterring.

[6.213km]

I'm actually amazed this hasn't happened before. Advantage im motor racing often involves thinking outside the square. Whether the rule makers allow this or not will be interesting to see, but it does appear that at this stage anyway, Uncle Tom obviously feels theres nothing in the rules that say he can't do it.

I think the most interesting thing about all this is, that, if this goes ahead, we may very well see 4 cars with the exact same livery racing at Sandown and Bathurst.... and possibly beyond? As a sponsor, you'd be rather crappy if you'd sponsored Garth all year, and he went and won Bathurst in the HRT commodore and you got no sponsorship value.

How does a Mobil red, Toll orange mix sound? Personally I think the Toll cars look awesome... so hopefully they wont mess with them... but yeah, it does create some interesting scenarios.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by 6.213km

I'm actually amazed this hasn't happened before. Advantage im motor racing often involves thinking outside the square. Whether the rule makers allow this or not will be interesting to see, but it does appear that at this stage anyway, Uncle Tom obviously feels theres nothing in the rules that say he can't do it.

I think the most interesting thing about all this is, that, if this goes ahead, we may very well see 4 cars with the exact same livery racing at Sandown and Bathurst.... and possibly beyond? As a sponsor, you'd be rather crappy if you'd sponsored Garth all year, and he went and won Bathurst in the HRT commodore and you got no sponsorship value.

How does a Mobil red, Toll orange mix sound? Personally I think the Toll cars look awesome... so hopefully they wont mess with them... but yeah, it does create some interesting scenarios.

Sounds like they'd go from sharing a passing resemblance to Tasman Motorsport to a passing resemblance to SCAR

[Chatters]

It sounds interesting, I didn't know Uncle Tom could do that! There's a few problems with having more sprint rounds, it could be too expensive for the teams, and if you move the enduros back 'til after the sprint rounds are finished, it means you'll have to move everything else forward like Indy, Bahrain, Symmons and The Island, which would be a bit of a logistical nightmare. Without that we'd be finishing up the enduros by the time the Clipsal was on.

[pete55]

I really think it devalues the championship and i don't care which team is contemplating it. Either keep the main drivers in their own car or don't include the enduros in the championship is what i am saying.

[peckstar]

pete, not disagreeing with you, but what do you want stooped

im assuming you mean the putting of the lead drivers in the same car (all your eggs in the one basket)

logically it makes sence for TW to do this. the HSV team is one and three in the championship, it makes sence to seperate them and put two weaker (defined as significantly lower in the championship) drivers with them this gives them the best opportunity to ensure at least one driver is still at the top of the leaderboard.

the downside is that it would affect the teams championship results as they couldnt drive for both teams and will probably affect pit lane allercation for next year as well

But would it be better if each driver ran in their own car ( with a co driver who was not the normal driver in the series, Thats a difficult one there are pros and cons both ways, do you want some part timer ruining your championship but we end up with less competitive cars out there in the fields. ie only two HSV/HRT cars instead of four (the same happened last year also)

i dont know the answer

i no longer overly care if the enduros are part of the championship, there are fors and against

[James63]

Who here had a problem with Paul Weel driving with Marcos Ambrose in 2002? Those two teams (PWR & SBR) shared no connection at all....Atleast HSVDT and HRT are effectively the same team.