[LM24] Le Mans 2007: Will it discredit the ACO?

[canam]

We are all very involved with the petrol vs diesel debate and generally seem to feel that the ACO will only respond with any changes at the end of this year (if they do at all); however, there is a reasonable chance that there will be a diesel walkover that could discredit the very notion of the race and make the ACO a laughing stock of the general public.

Some have cited that the diesel advantage was limited by looking at last year's race. Audi won it and they rarely needed to push. It was the R10s first LM and they did not want to take any chances.

This year with the Pugs in the game, both will be pushing. There is a good chance that it will be 1,2.3.4 for the diesel brigade--with the nearest petrol engined car more than 10 laps adrift in P5.

In the eyes of the general public, there is a good chance that the race will be viewed to have been heavily fixed by the ACO for one of two manufacturers to win it. The bias in favour of the diesels would be clear cut and the ACO would be openly ciriticised for not taking action when the bulk of the sportscar community (including other manufacturers) has warned of this problem (and the ACO has ignored it).

Having had their heads deeply immersed in the sand, they may now have to cover their backs at the same time. The action they take for 2008 may need to be more robust than would have otherwise have been necessary.

[zac510]

Not if it is a cracker of a race

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by canam

There is a good chance that it will be 1,2.3.4 for the diesel brigade--with the nearest petrol engined car more than 10 laps adrift in P5.

Which of the five Diesel entries have you discounted?

[Zurbert82]

I dont think everybody knows about the third Audi yet, except for us hardcore sportscar geeks

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Zurbert82

I dont think everybody knows about the third Audi yet, except for us hardcore sportscar geeks

[gwyllion]

The general public is interested in a battle between manufacturers. This is actually what we will finally have this year, after years of Audi domination. Peugeot will have a small speed advantage (because of the better aero of their coupe and higher claimed engine power), but will they have the consistency and reliablity to challenge Audi during 24 hours.

[SebringMG]

The general public are unlikely to know or even care what happens outside the expected audi-pug battle - sucks. As such no the ACO will not be discredited by the general public. However, amongst the more knowledegeable fans i believe they may will be and perhaps more importantly will the privateers who make up the numbers start to get a little annoyed by the diesel bias ?

They have to tread carefully....

[zac510]

When are Judd coming to the party with their privateer diesel engine? I thought that was what Zurbert was referring to in his post.

[Zurbert82]

Originally Posted by zac510

When are Judd coming to the party with their privateer diesel engine? I thought that was what Zurbert was referring to in his post.

Nope, I was referring to the 3rd Audi R10. You're thinking about the Swiss Spirit Lola Audi.

[bil588]

Originally Posted by zac510

When are Judd coming to the party with their privateer diesel engine? I thought that was what Zurbert was referring to in his post.

I hope they don't. The R10's sound makes me fall asleep.

[isynge]

While I'm as anti the current diesel bias as anyone else at the moment I really don't think there's any ground to see the sky falling.

In that light disaster would have been last year, with Audi running away with it uttery comprehensively. This year you've a pair if quick Peugeots to keep them honest, and some good petrol LMP1 entries which, if not contendors for victory, should at least keep them honest.

My reading of the situation (and call me a pollyanna if you like) is that the regs for 2008 and beyond will be steadily equalised if, for no other reason, than Honda's stated aspiration to race at Le Mans. The ACO are not fools, they've played the diesel game to get/keep Audi and Peugot aboard, but in the face of Honda, and any other manufacturers (my money's still on a Pescarolo Porsche) I can see the regs changingest.

The sky's looked like falling before. It has got a lot closer before. We're not there yet and if we all keep our heads nobody needs to be chicken little here. Let's enjoy what we've got while we have it...

[Mirage M6]

ACO will have problems if diesel engines will continue to be favored by rules. For decades small manufactures and privates team couldn’t do anything against bigs manufacturers, but now the situation has changed, we’ve seen a incredible performance, they win victories and championships, and the most important point: the number of small teams is the highest in endurance racing history; the race grids are dominated by those teams, that are going to stay in endurance for years: they have an indefinitive project, not like big manufacturers: The spend millions, they win the race/championship they want (or absolutely nothing), and then disappear again. Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, BMW, Chrysler, MG, Cadillac, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Renault, Ford, and more and more…ACO want to return to something like the glorious 1992 World Championship? We can lose all those small manufactures and teams if they force these teams to compete vs cars with an engine that has been favored by ACO rules.

Millions and millions + diesel engine with nowadays rules=impossible to win

Millions and millions + balanced rules=more or less possible to win, depend of each team and their work in the car. Money helps but isn’t the most important thing; remember motorsport history since 50s.

[cptkablamo]

I think the ACO will come of it fine in the short term...I mean to the general public it will be a fight between manufacturers with a slight environmental twist...the ad space that Audi and Peugeot will buy will make everything seem ok...

The longer term risk is if privateers pull out and LMS is left with a situation like we see in the ALMS...

[The Badger]

It wouldnt make a differance at all , if people laugh at the ACO . Come next year it will be over subscribed again . ACO can do as they seem fit , cuz they dont run to anybody elses championship rules , others run to theirs !!!

Im glad the ACO have their own rules , last time (1992) they ran to the Fia rules they had 29 cars on the grid , mind you , 19 finished the race . But sometimes the ACO do seem arrogant and god like !!!

[Purist]

I just wish the "Le Mans Series" actually had Le Mans as a points-paying round.

BTW, in 1923, 30 of 33 starters finished.

[canam]

While I an concede the notion that there will be a good race up-front, it will be so blatantly a 'diesel party' that it will appear to be a 'fifth' (and winning) class that only certain manufacturers can participate. Not all manufacturers make diesels. The ACO is effectively excluding these players.

I believe it will backfire on the ACO. I don't see other manufacturers pounding the doors to produce LMP diesels.

The diesel walkover at LM will be so comprehensive that every journalist will have to explain what is happening and the fingers will obviously be pointed at the rule makers and the principal beneficiaries: Audi and Pug. The public are not stupid.

In one way, I hope it rains for the full 24 hours and a GT2 car wins overall (a Ferrari or Panoz would be nice).

On the other hand, a 20 lap walkover would completely blow away any arguments that the ACO may wish to put forward about 'parity' and comprehensively rein them in for 2008.

On the issue of the Judd diesel: Audi's testing budget for their R10 engine for fuel alone was probably five to 10 times larger than Judd's development budget for new engines (petrol and diesel). It is not a pirvateer game unless Pug and Audi sell their engines.

[Tom908V12]

It's not being stupid, to be satisfied with a diesel Audi/Peugeot battle !!!

[courageous]

Originally Posted by canam

...will appear to be a 'fifth' (and winning) class that only certain manufacturers can participate. Not all manufacturers make diesels. The ACO is effectively excluding these players.

The other manufacturers haven't shown up in ages - they have no grounds for complaint, if they had been in the prototype ranks then the ACO would have asked them.

Privateers have come CLOSE recently, but don't you think Audi kind of wanted them to? - a steamroller would not have got publicity (plus why spend £50m to win by a lap when you can spend £5m and win by a minute?)

On the other hand, now they have another factory to fight against the gloves will come off & the Pescarolo/Zytek/Creation will get left behind.

[minimangler]

i don't think the ACO's claim that a works petrol could win is partciularly accurate- the rules are definitely diesel fixed.
if they were equivalent, we'd probably see a petrol win, wouldn't we?
or am i all wrong?

[SebringMG]

Originally Posted by minimangler

i don't think the ACO's claim that a works petrol could win is partciularly accurate- the rules are definitely diesel fixed.
if they were equivalent, we'd probably see a petrol win, wouldn't we?
or am i all wrong?

IF there were any WORKS petrol teams out there racing then they would be at a pace level similar to the diesels can manage!!! You won't see a petrol win this year because they are all privateers and just don't have the money to do the same level of R&D as audi and peugeot

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by minimangler

i don't think the ACO's claim that a works petrol could win is partciularly accurate- the rules are definitely diesel fixed.
if they were equivalent, we'd probably see a petrol win, wouldn't we?
or am i all wrong?

Unless I am very much mistaken a petrol car, the Penske Porsche, running to a type of speeded up ALMs P2 rule has already won this year.

I wonder what a P1 one Porsche would be capable of?

[SebringMG]

Unfortunately the general public ARE stupid and will probably accept whatever the press and the manufacturers feed them, after all the majority of people still believe that F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport

The other problem is that no other manufacturer (other than Honda) has come forward and declared an interest and commited a budget for a P1 assault. Porsche have said they will if the regs are equalised and 2-3 others may do depending upon the regs.....Now these people need to publically declare their dislike of the rules and commit to a programme!!

I suspect that when 2 or 3 declare for P1 programmes with petrol engines then the rules will very quickly be equalised until that time i cannot see it happening quickly!

[bernard b]

ACO always claimed a WORKS petrol car can win with their rules, so as long as no works team are here to unprove it, they don't see the point of changing

[Mirage M6]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

It's not being stupid, to be satisfied with a diesel Audi/Peugeot battle !!!

Yes, it's not stupid, but we could have much better situation for Le Mans 2007 than now.

Although SebringLM said well when he has refered to general public

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by Mirage M6

Yes, it's not stupid, but we could have much better situation for Le Mans 2007 than now.

Wait, like the time that a gasoline powered Audi R8 raced other gasoline powered R8s for victory?