DTM 2023

[Matt K]

I guess it's time for the 2023 thread.
With the big announcement that ADAC is taking over the DTM and further details revealed today, there are already some more information regarding the upcoming season.

First of all, I have to say today's news kind of exceeded my expectations. The 'pyramid' that ADAC came up with looks really good 'on paper' and I'm really happy that the concept of the DTM is retained. I believe that thanks to ADAC, the DTM is on a bit more stable ground.

Lack of competition between DTM and ADAC will also help everyone in my opinion plus will put some order to the German motorsport scene and the whole package looks very, very good. I'm also happy that DTM will now use Pirelli as I've got an impression that Michelin wasn't fully engaged in their role of tyre supplier. Slightly less happy with SRO BOP but that was to be predicted.

I'm quite curious if the relationship between DTM and DTM Endurance will be completely frictionless however. How the teams will be spread across the two series remains to be seen but I'm kind of curious about the numbers. ADAC says their goal for the DTM is to have between 24 and 28 cars and I believe it's reasonable.

Have to say I like the calendar a lot, really happy with return to Oschersleben, will be fantastic to see DTM at Sachsenring as well. It's nice to see the DTM return to Zandvoort and that Norisring is retained. The balance is much in favour of Germany but great that all the 6 events will be held on different tracks. In the future would be great to see two rounds added, for instance at Salzburgring and Spa but still, not much to complain about.

[Yannick]

The calendar is looking really good indeed.

[Bcarr6]

Just watched the first 5 mins of one of the ADAC Prototype races from 2022 season, 11 cars, and I think that was a season high. Theres a nice scenario here where P3 just disappears due to lack of interest, and GT Masters / DTM Endurance just gets to be GT3 focused Am orientated racing.

[Matt K]

First entries for the 2023 season are confirmed.
Abt has confirmed they will be there with at least two cars, with Kelvin van der Linde stating remaining with them and doing the DTM is his goal. What's interesting is that it's not yet certain which car Abt will field.

It is also confirmed Thomas Preining and Dennis Olsen will remain in the DTM with Porsche, no details about the teams and the number of cars but it's said more cars can be added - the new Porsches ofc.

Grasser has just confirmed they'll field two cars in the DTM next year so scaling back from four this year in order to combine the DTM programme with GTWC. A start in GT Masters is also possible.

Following the change from ITR to ADAC, there's a cloud of uncertainty about Rene Rast now, allegedly he wants to the DTM with BMW but there's one calendar clash with Formula E and he needs to have a full-time programme there. So either he misses one round in the DTM or is not there at all.

2023 Entry List

CONFIRMED
Abt - ?? - K. van der Linde?
Abt - ?? - ??
Grasser - Lamborghini - ??
Grasser - Lamborghini - ??
?? - Porsche - T. Preining
?? - Porsche - D. Olsen

POSSIBLE/RUMOURED
Schubert?? - BMW - S. van der Linde??
?? - BMW - R. Rast??

[Bcarr6]

Bernhard likely with 1 car, possibly 2

Manthey and Toksport WRT potential Porsche entrants too

SSR are rumoured to be swapping to Lamborghini, space in that stable created by GRT moving from 4 to 2 cars

AF corse will likely not be returning to the championship as Red Bull have removed their backing for the programme

Interesting movements, and shows there’s solid potential in DTM, when they are discussing the logistics of which teams fit in a 6-car-per-manufacturer slot

My guess at a very basic level:

4 Lamborghini
4-6 Porsche
4 Audi
4-6 Mercedes
4 BMW
1-2 Ferrari/Aston/McLaren/Honda/similar

24-26 cars would be a nice figure

[Speed-King]

DTM Endurance not happening after all: https://www.motorsport-total.com/gt-...ender-22122401

So there will now be only six races for GT-Masters( one standalone, one at the N'Ring Truck GP, the rest with DTM), and I'm wondering how many teams have already moved on. Might be a bit of a challenge to put together a good field now.

[Matt K]

The question is now, as much as DTM Endurance concept was controversial, what does GT Masters stand for? Is it still sort of a combination between juniors and amateurs that might prove a step on the ladder towards a future DTM move? Or is it again just another GT3 series in Germany next to DTM? Looks like ADAC is not entirely sure what they want to do with the whole platform.
Grasser, for example, seem like disregarding GT Masters, opting to focus on DTM and GTWC instead. There might be more teams like that but we'll see.
Possibly a better idea would be to have a mulit-class GT Masters with GT3 and GT4, whereas DTM Trophy would remain as a purely junior, one-driver-per-car series. But another question would be, if there's enough teams/drivers/sponsors for all of that.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Originally Posted by Matt K

The question is now, as much as DTM Endurance concept was controversial, what does GT Masters stand for?

Good question. When racing on DTM weekends GT Masters will play second fiddle. They won't be in the pit boxes for example. Plus ADAC already has the GTC Race series on its ADAC Racing Weekend meetings, where GT3 and GT4 race together. No point in creating another similar series.

[porsche962fan]

was there ever such an idiotic situation when you have a main series and the supporting series used the same cars ?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

was there ever such an idiotic situation when you have a main series and the supporting series used the same cars ?

V8 Supercars in Australia?

Michelin Le Mans Cup and ELMS?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

was there ever such an idiotic situation when you have a main series and the supporting series used the same cars ?

This isn't idiotic. It's extremely common throughout motorsport history. Nobody would call the GTWC setup idiotic, but they have GT4s in some main series, and GT4 support series. But they also have a lot of GT3 support series supporting the main GT3 event. Or national series supporting regional ones.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This isn't idiotic. It's extremely common throughout motorsport history. Nobody would call the GTWC setup idiotic, but they have GT4s in some main series, and GT4 support series. But they also have a lot of GT3 support series supporting the main GT3 event. Or national series supporting regional ones.

GTWC America, GT America, GT4 America... all seem to overlap pretty happily.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This isn't idiotic. It's extremely common throughout motorsport history. Nobody would call the GTWC setup idiotic, but they have GT4s in some main series, and GT4 support series. But they also have a lot of GT3 support series supporting the main GT3 event. Or national series supporting regional ones.

true but here it's a relative small country motorsportwise this days , not like what it used to be

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

true but here it's a relative small country motorsportwise this days , not like what it used to be

DTM is not contained within a single country, it races across the continent.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

true but here it's a relative small country motorsportwise this days , not like what it used to be

Other than the US and perhaps Japan, I can't think of a country that's larger than Germany come motorsport. GT Masters, DTM and NLS alone put it ahead of a lot of countries.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Other than the US and perhaps Japan, I can't think of a country that's larger than Germany come motorsport. GT Masters, DTM and NLS alone put it ahead of a lot of countries.

UK

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Other than the US and perhaps Japan, I can't think of a country that's larger than Germany come motorsport. GT Masters, DTM and NLS alone put it ahead of a lot of countries.

Argentina

[uesugi kenshin]

Argentina has more racing series than the rest of the world put together !!

[FIRE]

With Ratel commenting on the takeover I get the impression DTM will keep GT3 cars in the next 3 to 4 years.

[Matt K]

Yeah, can't see them keeping GT3 cars any shorter than that. The question is, what is the long-term plan and strategy for ADAC? Do they intend to keep the status quo for the longer-term and see how the 'pyramid' works? Or do they plan to change the ruleset of the DTM in, say, 5-8 years timeframe? Will be interesting to see how it all goes. They've signalled DTM Electric may appear one day but merely as a support series and because of financing it's still a long way until the concept becomes viable.

Also, ADAC signalled that in the future they'd like to expand DTM calendar to 10-12 rounds and I'd be really happy with that but there are so many factors that make it difficult so can't see it happening in next 2-3 years to be honest.

[Bcarr6]

Looks like GT Masters and Prototype Germany are indeed going to be separated.

GTM gets 4 weekends with the DTM, 1 as headline, and 1 supporting Truck GP

TCR Germany survives but does get shifted partially to the ADAC Racing Weekends, same for the Prototype Germany.

[Matt K]

https://www.motorsport-magazin.com/d...hes-reglement/

Some details have emerged about the upcoming DTM season and it looks like DTM is set for a capacity grid of 26-28 cars as the interest is enormous - and entries should be completed by the half of February. What's interesting is that ADAC says they're talking with manufacturers that haven't been in the DTM before so perhaps Nicki Thiim-Aston Martin plans may materialise finally.

A bit shame that the 'Indy' restarts are gone, they spiced things up, although last season there were too many crashes because of that so all things considered, probably the decision to get rid of that is a good one.

I'm also curious about the points system - no info on that yet and I wonder if the one from GT Masters will be adopted. Personally, I think that would be a reasonable solution to have Top 15 points-scoring positions especially if there are close to 30 cars on the grid.

Rumours are circulating that Thomas Preining will join Manthey Racing - wonder if Bernhard stays in the DTM at all.

[GT3_Fan]

Glad to see the 2 by 2 restarts end. Too much risk for damage. "The Show" is not always about those split second shocking moments. Its about the whole 50 minute race. Maybe too many of us out there don't get that.

[FIRE]

Engstler Motorsport joins DTM in 2023. Together wil loyal sponsor Liqui Moly the German team enters at least one Audi R8 GT3, probably driven by Luca Engstler (Audi customer driver). Project manager is former DTM driver Manuel Reuter. Next weekend they have their Audi debut in the GT Winter Series at Jerez.

Source: http://autosport.nl/klasse/nieuws/37...s-dtm-met-audi

[FIRE]

https://www.engstler-motorsport.de/n...-team-engstler

Two Audi R8 GT3 cars.