Brabham BT14

[allenbrown]

I'm sure we had a thread on the BT14s before but it's vanished. So, until it turns up again and gets merged, here's a "continuation thread".

[allenbrown]

Autosport 20 Apr 1978 p66 advert for a "Brabham BT14 1965 Ex Geoff Ingliss Hillclimb car. One of only 2 short wheelbase chassis ever built. Presently fitted with Alfa Romeo twin cam engine ... Brixham 55223 (Devon)".

[Bryan Miller]

We have 3 in Australia , by coincidence they are chassis numbers ,
FL-1-65 , FL-2-65 and FL -3-65.
Will detail later.
Bryan.

[allenbrown]

Bryan

Do you recall a previous BT14 thread. Ted and I both think there was but Andrew can't remember one.

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

No previous thread as far as I can remember , I did ask 1 question somewhere about a '' BT14 , FL-1-65 , '' report in an Autosport about 1970 , and queried this plate no. but absolutely nothing else , that question and report may be on the B29 thread , I will look.
Bryan.

[allenbrown]

OK, I found it. It wasn't a dedicated thread on BT14s, it was part of thread on sprint Brabhams. This one might be hard for John to work on because it was on TNF! Well at least I'm relieved to know my memory isn't completely shot!

I'll do a summary for my new 10 Tenths BT14 thread.

Allen

[John Turner]

Rodger Newman's BT14 at Cadwell, 26 June, 2005:-

[allenbrown]

Here's what I know about BT14s after the discussion I had with David McK, Steve W and Ted W plus a very helpful recent list from Denis Lupton. All cars are in the UK unless otherwise stated.

FL-1-65 - Bib Stillwell (Aus) 1965 - RC Philips Late 1965 - Bob Jane 1968
FL-2-65 - John Butterworth 1965-68 ... missing in 1969-71 ... Geoff Inglis in 1972 ... Devon in 1978
FL-3-65 - John Mitchell 1965-67; reportedly sold to America ...
FL-4-65 - Fred Smith 1965-68 - Peter Kaye 1969 ... Geoff Lambert 1971
FL-5-65 - Malcolm Templeton (Ire) 1965-67 - John Smith (Ire) 1968 ... Edmund Irvine (Ire) 1970
FL-6-65 - Rodney Bloor 1965 - John Bridges 1965 - John Davis 1966 ...
FL-7-65 - Jackie Epstein 1965 - Ian Raby late 1965 and retained by team until at least 1969
FL-8-65 - Robert Ashcroft/Derek Bennett 1965 - Jim Charnock 1966 - Davey Powell 1966-67...
FL-9-65 - Kurt Ahrens ... (according to Denis)
FL-10-65 - no such car (according to Denis)

Other suspected BT14s are:
1. John and David Bridges 1965 - Bryan Eccles 1966 - Roy Lane 1967-68 - Jim Johnstone 1969 - John Scott-Walter 1970 - Malcolm Dungworth 1971 ...
2. John Ewer 1965 (odd libre races from May onwards, advertised Jan 1966)
3. Barrie Ford 1965 (1650cc - two libre races in Sep and Oct 1965)
4. Keith Jones 1965 (1650cc)
5. Earl Jones US Formula B 1965 (wrecked)
Cars that first appear in 1966:
6. John Bridges/Red Rose Motors 1966
7. David Preston/Sports Motors 1966
8. Philippe Vidal F3 1966
Cars that first appear in 1968:
9. Jan Bussell (Malaysia) ex Howden Ganley unused F3 car

As Brabham records have always said that ten BT14s were built, the lack of a FL-10-65 is a puzzle. However, the Bridges-Eccles-Lane car pretty clearly was a BT14 so maybe it missed out on being allocated a number. The others must have been something that looked like a BT14 but ...

Bryan - could you fill me in on 1-65, 2-65 and 3-65 in Australia?

Allen

[allenbrown]

Time for an update. Alan's positive identification of Lane's car as FL-1-65 means that there were definitely two cars with that number. Also, Denis has spotted a mistake in the information he gave me last month: FL-9-65 was the Bridges car, not the Ahrens car (which was F2-3-65).

So the list is now as follows (again, all cars except FL-1-65(I) are in the UK unless otherwise stated).

FL-1-65(I) - Bib Stillwell (Aus) 1965 - RC Philips Late 1965 - Bob Jane 1968 ... back to Stillwell(?) - Peter Sydney - Rob Hands - Peter Harburg 2005. Retained 2006
FL-1-65(II) - John and David Bridges 1965 - Bryan Eccles 1966 - Roy Lane 1967-68 - Jim Johnstone 1969 - John Scott-Walter 1970 - Malcolm Dungworth 1971 ...
FL-2-65 - John Butterworth 1965-68 ... missing in 1969-71 ... Geoff Inglis in 1972 ... Devon in 1978 ... John Ampt (Aus) - Noel Robson (Aus) 1988; retained 2006
FL-3-65 - John Mitchell 1965-67; reportedly sold to America ... Bruce Redding (US) ... George Goodare (Aus) - Brian Wilson (Aus) - John Gale (Aus). Retained 2006.
FL-4-65 - Fred Smith 1965-68 - Peter Kaye 1969 ... Geoff Lambert 1971
FL-5-65 - Malcolm Templeton (Ire) 1965-67 - John Smith (Ire) 1968 ... Edmund Irvine (Ire) 1970
FL-6-65 - Rodney Bloor 1965 - John Bridges 1965 - John Davis 1966 ... Rodger Newman 2005
FL-7-65 - Jackie Epstein 1965 - Ian Raby late 1965 and retained by team until at least 1969 ... Jonathan Burke 2005
FL-8-65 - Robert Ashcroft/Derek Bennett 1965 - Jim Charnock 1966 - Davey Powell 1966-67...
FL-9-65 - John Bridges/Red Rose Motors 1966 ... race-cars.com recently

This gives us a total of ten BT14s, which matches MRD records, but that may just be a coincidence. Other cars that don't yet fit (BT10s?, BT15s?, "Friday afternoon cars"?) are:
1. John Ewer 1965 (odd libre races from May onwards, advertised Jan 1966)
2. Barrie Ford 1965 (1650cc - two libre races in Sep and Oct 1965)
3. Keith Jones 1965 (1650cc)
4. Earl Jones US Formula B 1965 (wrecked)
Cars that first appear in 1966:
5. David Preston/Sports Motors 1966
6. Philippe Vidal F3 1966

Other BT14s are racing today, both in the UK and in the US. Anyone have ids on any of them?

Allen

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

FL-4-65 - Fred Smith 1965-68 - Peter Kaye 1969 ... Geoff Lambert 1971

Bill Creasey tell me he traded a FF to Bobby Howlings for "a Brabham BT14 Twin Cam especially built for hill climbs and a very nice chap who I think was called Smith". When prompted, Bill agreed it was Fred Smith. Bill raced it for a season or two and then part-exchanged it for Graham Eden's Chevron B17 (the B10/B17). Bill can't remember exact dates but I think this places his ownership of the BT14 as 1970 as he was in the B10/17 early in 1971.

Allen

[M J Smith]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Bill Creasey tell me he traded a FF to Bobby Howlings for "a Brabham BT14 Twin Cam especially built for hill climbs and a very nice chap who I think was called Smith". When prompted, Bill agreed it was Fred Smith. Bill raced it for a season or two and then part-exchanged it for Graham Eden's Chevron B17 (the B10/B17). Bill can't remember exact dates but I think this places his ownership of the BT14 as 1970 as he was in the B10/17 early in 1971.

Allen

Allen great talking to you today , there is a possibility that a photo of your BT 9 might be found....so I'm told of the car being put in the transporter to Fred Opert in late 66 if so will send you a copy.
Had a long chat with Fred Smith re his BT14 which raced more than hill climbed including the F2 race at Hockenheim in 67 to make up the numbers of FVA cars Fred finished 7th.
For those interested look at what I wrote on the BT15 page about Fred, as I had thought his car was a 15!
Malcolm

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

FL-2-65 - John Butterworth 1965-68 ... missing in 1969-71 ... Geoff Inglis in 1972 ... Devon in 1978 ... John Ampt (Aus) - Noel Robson (Aus) 1988; retained 2006

Dennis Chorley April 1969 "recently bought from John Butterworth" and still with blown 1.5. Autosport 11 Apr 1969 p36.

Originally Posted by allenbrown

FL-4-65 - Fred Smith 1965-68 - Peter Kaye 1969 ... Geoff Lambert 1971

"Peter Kaye on his first outing in the ex-Freddie Smith twin cam BT14" Autosport 4 Apr 1969 p37.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

FL-2-65 - John Butterworth 1965-68 - Dennis Chorley 1969 ... missing 1970-71 ... Geoff Inglis in 1972 ... Devon in 1978 ... John Ampt (Aus) - Noel Robson (Aus) 1988; retained 2006

Bob Breeze is sharing ex-Butterworth 1.5 Brabham BT14 with Chorley: Autosport 2 May 1969 p17.

[allenbrown]

FL-2-65 - John Butterworth 1965-68 - Dennis Chorley 1969-70 ... missing 1971 ... Geoff Inglis in 1972 ... Devon in 1978 ... John Ampt (Aus) - Noel Robson (Aus) 1988; retained 2006

Autosport 9 Jul 1970 p50: "Dennis Chorley has returned to the hills in the blown Brabham BT14/21 which he damaged at Shelsley last year".

[allenbrown]

Ted

John Blanden's book says that the Bussell car is AM88. Is that in the right range for a BT14. Any way to speculate from the number whether it's early 1964 or late 1964? Or whether it might have been a BT15 or a BT16 rather than a BT14?

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

AM 88 is way out of BT14 range, I spent the weekend at Eastern Creek , and advised John Gale who owns FL-3-65 of this site , he will join in asap , also John and someone he knows in the USA have been working on the histories of the BT 14's so will contribute their research so far.
John's FL-3-65 is a single digit AM number , if he wishes to advise the exact number I will leave that up to John.
The detective work John did to estalblish his cars history would be the most comprehensive I have ever seen , Duncan R. is aware of it and has no problem with the conclusion.
Bryan.

[Ted Walker]

I have FL6 as being owned at one point by Alan Baille FL7 as owned by TonyBarchou and Don Orosco(probably via Dick Crossthwaite ?? ) FL8 Mike Freeman then to Bob Hollander USA. And Finally FL10 I have the AM No and owner !!!

[allenbrown]

Thanks Ted

How about AM numbers? How do the AM numbers you have on record for BT14s compare with the AM88 on Bussell's car? Bryan says AM88 is well out of range. Would you agree?

[Ted Walker]

I would agree Allen. I would say we are looking at a No (without giving anything away) in the sub 50 area

[allenbrown]

So AM88 would be a 1966 car of some sort?

[Ted Walker]

Probably a BT15 I should think Allen.

[allenbrown]

Which would explain why Howden Ganley had it for F3. I wonder why it's always been known as a BT14.

Allen

[Alan Brown]

As a newcomer, although a frequent reader of these interesting posts, I hope that I can slot in a little piece of the jigsaw. Entered at Great Auclum in August 1968 was R T Lane Brabham V8 GM 3500 - I noted in my programme FL-1-65. This seems to confirm the history of the Bridges' car.

[Bryan Miller]

Allen,

The same old update story , you fit a Ford twink to a BT15 and it then becomes a car in BT14 spec.[ it doesn't but you know what I am getting at] , no different to fitting BT35 panels to a BT28 , car then becomes BT35.
Car could also be a BT16 .
Bryan.

[allenbrown]

Bryan

Have you seen the car?

Allen