The red pill

[The Snout]

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/34678/

[climb]

Originally Posted by The Snout

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/34678/

As usual CC-fan journalists shoot at IRL's real problems to ridicoulously hide CC's ones.

Really does CC have a lot of cars in the grid? And a few stars driving?
Can justin Wilson be considered a star?

Accusing IRL of prohibitive costs is clearly unfair: engine duration and chassis freeze have significantly diminished costs for teams in the last two years, whereas CC, with new cars to buy will be far more expensive. Of course a new chassis is an element of interest but certailnly not a way to save money.

As we say in Italy, if IRL cry, CC doesn't laugh.

[baclightning]

Originally Posted by climb

Can justin Wilson be considered a star?

Yes. Next question?

[climb]

Originally Posted by baclightning

Yes. Next question?

If you consider Justin Wilson a star, then CC is filled with stars, as well as Formula Renaul Monza, FF 1600 etc...

[baclightning]

Originally Posted by climb

If you consider Justin Wilson a star, then CC is filled with stars, as well as Formula Renaul Monza, FF 1600 etc...

You can laugh all you want, but the fact is that I'd tune in to any race Justin Wilson is driving in, in any series, just to see him drive.

[D.R.T.]

I dont really know much about the journo, how do you know he is a CC fan?

[Alex K]

How many signed drivers does Champ Car has :
How many fully backed teams does CC has :
I don't rate PT as bigger star or better driver than Haornish Jr., Castroneves, Wheldon, Dixon, etc.
Still IRL has confirmed full 2007 schedule, CC is still dreaming about Europe, knowing they don't have cash to do it.

[enemy-ace]

Uh. I seriously don't think Marshall Pruett is a Champ Car guy. His bio seems more SPEED GT and Touring related.

[drewdawg727]

Champ Car is in a reconstruction period...they have a future in store for them. Does the IRL have a future spelt out for them right now?

[Alex K]

Brighter than Champ Car, TG doesn't dream about Europe, still has Penske, Andretti, Ganassi, number of backers under his wing... Period.

[enemy-ace]

Originally Posted by Alex K

... Period.

Unfortunately neither series is in a position to put a 'period' on their status within the racing world. Seems more like a run-on sentence really.
To argue over which series has the advantage over the other is like arguing over who's girlfriend is the least ugly.

[BootsOntheSide]

ChampCar looks in the stronger position of the two at the moment, with a likely field of 18-22 cars, talented drivers from all over the world, and a future direction mapped out. The IRL is stuck in the same position of 2006 - a single engine and chassis due to others pulling out rather than by design, established teams dropping out, two teams dominating at the front, no real stars behind them bar Kanaan and perhaps Meira.

All the same, it's not wise for a championship to make too much of its disadvantages. There are plenty of positives for the IRL to maximise, and plenty of things which could go right in future,

[Alex K]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

no real stars behind them bar Kanaan and perhaps Meira.

OH MY GOD Jesus Maria. D'you know names like Hornish, Castroneves, Wheldon, Dixon, Manning ?

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

two teams dominating at the front, no real stars behind them bar Kanaan and perhaps Meira.

Alex, I'm well aware that Penske and Ganassi have 2 star drivers each. Try reading what I post before responding.

[climb]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

ChampCar looks in the stronger position of the two at the moment, with a likely field of 18-22 cars, talented drivers from all over the world, and a future direction mapped out. The IRL is stuck in the same position of 2006 - a single engine and chassis due to others pulling out rather than by design, established teams dropping out, two teams dominating at the front, no real stars behind them bar Kanaan and perhaps Meira.

All the same, it's not wise for a championship to make too much of its disadvantages. There are plenty of positives for the IRL to maximise, and plenty of things which could go right in future,

For once Boots, I don't agree with you.

About the supposed talented drivers , well I'll wait for the incoming season to see some; and about dominant teams in IRL, well, just count the teams in condition to fight for the title in 2006:

IRL: Ganassi, Penske, Andretti, and a real competition inside these teams
CC: Newman-Haas
F1: Renault,Ferrari (with no competition inside these teams)


Just to enlarge the comparison:
BF3: Double R, Carlin
EuroF3: ASM, Manor

Among the major open wheel series, IRL is by lightyears the most competitive, and I expect things to stay more or less the same for 2007

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by climb

For once Boots, I don't agree with you.

About the supposed talented drivers , well I'll wait for the incoming season to see some; and about dominant teams in IRL, well, just count the teams in condition to fight for the title in 2006:

IRL: Ganassi, Penske, Andretti, and a real competition inside these teams
CC: Newman-Haas
F1: Renault,Ferrari (with no competition inside these teams)

Unfair, climb, as Forsythe was in it once Allmendinger showed his form.

[climb]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Unfair, climb, as Forsythe was in it once Allmendinger showed his form.

IMHO it turned out to be nothing more than a paper fire, seb's empteenth title was never at risk, with the winner marking 30% more points than the runner-up.

For the records, the IRL final standings, the winner had the same points of the runner-up.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by climb

IRL: Ganassi, Penske, Andretti, and a real competition inside these teams

How competitive was the Andretti team in 06 ?

Originally Posted by climb

Among the major open wheel series, IRL is by lightyears the most competitive

Climb I'd admire your commitment but you've got to be kidding.

[Hazza]

The only difference between a Champcar Fan and an IRL fan is last time I checked, IRL fans don't go into the Champcar forum spewing crap at every possible oppertunity.

You tell us that we're running old cars? I'm sorry, what was the LOLA? You tell us that you have "all the stars" but you'd kill to get Kanaan, Dario, Scott, Marco and Hornish in your series. You come in here EVERY SINGLE YEAR coming up with these claims of 26 car grids when each year you end up mustering 18 at the most. You tell us that your series is more competitive when ONE MAN has won the series 3 times in a row while we have had 3 different winners. We had six different race winners and you had four this year.

We're sick of this allready.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Hazza

The only difference between a Champcar Fan and an IRL fan is last time I checked, IRL fans don't go into the Champcar forum spewing crap at every possible oppertunity.

Couldn't be more wrong IMHO Hazza. No one hardly post in the IRL Indy Car series board anymore which is a shame, from what I see there is no bashing. There maybe construction critizisium and disagreements, but if you want your bashing, look at the Champ Car forum where un named members daily bash Champ Car and never discuss racing.
I hate Tony George, but that doesn't stop from me from enjoying the excitement of oval racing and the Indy 500.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Hazza

You tell us that we're running old cars? I'm sorry, what was the LOLA? You tell us that you have "all the stars" but you'd kill to get Kanaan, Dario, Scott, Marco and Hornish in your series. You come in here EVERY SINGLE YEAR coming up with these claims of 26 car grids when each year you end up mustering 18 at the most. You tell us that your series is more competitive when ONE MAN has won the series 3 times in a row while we have had 3 different winners. We had six different race winners and you had four this year.

That's no what the situation is....The reason why I rank Champ Car now ahead of the IRL and as many do is the new car. The building blocks have been a slow process but visible now. The last few years the IRL had the better overall quality of drivers throughout the field, therefore the most competitive overall field, but now in 2007 that's changed. As I've said the field is increasing to what we thought, and it looks as though there will be a similar grid to last year in the IRL but this time more fill in drivers. Back to the old days of less talent. This is the difference. Champ Car is much more competitive this year. I agree that the past few year some people have said there will be a few more entries then what would probably happen. That's optimism. Where as this time because of the new car and many other things, Champ Car will most likely definitely have over 20 cars from what I can see.
Champ car did have a chassis freeze so they used the old cars for a few years, but that's neither here or there as they have actually done something and built a new car, something the IRL must do for 2008 IMHO else it will be a sinking ship from then on. Where as the CCWS has filled up the leaks and the ship is sailing again.
But that's U.S. open wheel racing as it is today. We all want a merge, it has to be done, it probably won't happen, but hey that's life.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by Hazza

The only difference between a Champcar Fan and an IRL fan is last time I checked, IRL fans don't go into the Champcar forum spewing crap at every possible oppertunity.

You tell us that we're running old cars? I'm sorry, what was the LOLA? You tell us that you have "all the stars" but you'd kill to get Kanaan, Dario, Scott, Marco and Hornish in your series. You come in here EVERY SINGLE YEAR coming up with these claims of 26 car grids when each year you end up mustering 18 at the most. You tell us that your series is more competitive when ONE MAN has won the series 3 times in a row while we have had 3 different winners. We had six different race winners and you had four this year.

We're sick of this allready.

spot on mate! They bore me to death!

[climb]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

How competitive was the Andretti team in 06 ?

A bit more than PKV I guess; and they sorted the most interesting young talent of the season.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Climb I'd admire your commitment but you've got to be kidding.

If you just could seriously provide some example against what I say....

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by climb

A bit more than PKV I guess; and they sorted the most interesting young talent of the season.

If you just could seriously provide some example against what I say....

Well, which is it? Andretti is competitive, or Forsythe is not?

I'd say that's an example of where your argument crossed into hyperbole. You can't credit one without doing the same with the other.

IRL is more competitive, but to say light years ahead is IMO a stretch.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by climb

A bit more than PKV I guess; and they sorted the most interesting young talent of the season.

You included AGR but didnt include Forsythe in your "objective" look at the competitiveness of each series. How did you come to that conclusion ?

AGR won races, less than Forsythe and then CTE even won races and had podiums.

Originally Posted by Hazza

The only difference between a Champcar Fan and an IRL fan is last time I checked, IRL fans don't go into the Champcar forum spewing crap at every possible oppertunity

Hazza, this thread begun about the IRL, it was then pro IRL people who introduced CC into this discussion.