Mid engined madness

[gttouring]

after reading about the Micra racer with a nissan primera engine strapped where the rear seats should be (Ford Fiesta SHOgun anyone?) or Renault Clio V6.
what shafts are used to the rear wheels?
it stands to reason that the front end can simply be placed in a chassis in the rear and with no steering link present a bar place wheel to wheel can e place to control toe.
but would this be done so easy?
simply put a front drive engine/transaxle assembly into the rear portion of a hatch and call it a day, or are special halfshafts needed for the driven wheels?
and could the same hubs be used up front simply seal the shaft opening?
is could be great fun, if i can work it out.

[graham bahr]

its been done quite a few times, you wouldn't need special shafts at the rear, the origonal front ones would work just fine, infact they would be stronger in a rear application, as they would only have to transmit drive in an almost straight line,

and at the front end, a cv joint without its inner guts and shaft would make a perfect bolt to hold the hub assemble together, infact if you look under the rear of a vaux calibre your see thats how the rear hubs are held together unless its 4WD

[HiRich]

Originally Posted by gttouring

It stands to reason that the front end can simply be placed in a chassis in the rear and with no steering link present a bar place wheel to wheel can be placed to control toe.
but would this be done so easy?

Not quite so simple. Ideally, you would want to look at the geometry & settings:
- What was anti-dive at the front will have become pro-squat when you move it to the back.
- Toe-in would need to be reconsidered
- Your tie bar, replacing the steering link would need to be carefully considered, to remove any caster inducement through articulation
- Any fancy bushing (to induce different dynamic settings) would need to be acommodated (or ripped out).
- Sprung weights, roll centres, spring stiffness and damper settings should be reviewed.

Now, this may not be a big issue for you, but you would need to go in with your eyes open, and it might be easier to just start cutting metal and building a custom setup.

[gttouring]

ofcourse, cutting out the rear floor would be best and with a custom frame to hold it all together, if it would be, and likely is a strut style front suspension set up, this might address the wandering toe, but a tie bar sounds like a good way to keep things straight.
any ideas where i canfind a rear set up? as in a cage or sub frame and attachment points?
i figured it would be on the motor mounts and transaxle mounts and the engine would drop into it, and the shafts attached underneath.
what else am i missing?
ah suspension points- the struts would have to be mounted with less caster yes?
and to be simple set toe to Zero or a slightly inward (is that negative toe? or toe in)
it may cause a bit of understeer depending on how the rest of the suspension is placed, my concern is squatting on acceleration and pinching in braking. (i would prefer zero isuppose and tweak in testing, but baseline set ups you know)

[imull]

loads of chat about this on the locost builders forums. Why not start with something like a donor MR2? Or talk to that bloke at Z Cars about buidling you one

Alternativey a wee bit of time on a pooter and you can design in your own cage to suit.

[gttouring]

oh i have the CAD ready, and some rudimentary designs- but i never thought of an MR2 donor for a ready made cradle, and suspension points, very good.
iave talked to some locost guys, and my 7 project is in the dumps, on hold,but i have a front engined car, and would like to stick an engine in the rear seats, maybe. or shoe horn it into a Metro or something

[R59]

You don't want to use that CAD rubbish. Disc cutter, mig welder, tape measure....

Big hammer...

Go on, make it happen.

[imull]

you forgot the chisel and can of WD40 from your tool kit lol

[bigted]

Get yourself down to an autograss event, you will see some lovely examples of mid engine conversions

[imull]

the best example of mid engine madness has to be from the guy who builds the GTD40 kit cars (from memory) who too a GT40 type Ford Engine, spaghetti exhaust and works Stage 3 heads and bollted it into th back of a mini pickup.

quatered an oil barrel for the wheel arches and now thrashes the pants of it at any opportunity

[richard_sykes]

Originally Posted by imull

the best example of mid engine madness has to be from the guy who builds the GTD40 kit cars (from memory) who too a GT40 type Ford Engine, spaghetti exhaust and works Stage 3 heads and bollted it into th back of a mini pickup.

quatered an oil barrel for the wheel arches and now thrashes the pants of it at any opportunity

Pictures needed.

[StephenRae]

If you are going to plant an engine in the back why not leave the front one where it is? There have been some lovely examples of this over the years. I remember a grass track mini van which worked superbly, having given up with the gear change for the rear engine it worked just fine if left in 2nd gear!

[imull]

would supply pics but saw it in a mates copy of one of the main mini mags (Mini World I think) about 18 months ago