Massa Who?

[wheelsportaddict]

Yet again Filipe Massa finishes out of the points.

Is it really worth Ferrari keeping him? IMHO - No!

I think it's time for the team to sit down and seriously consider his position in the team. Should Bahrian be his last race? Surely a pointless finish again would spell the end?

[Mr V]

He finished only 5 seconds off Fernando, dispite going on a stratergy that meant that his tyres were going to end up being knackard. I don't think he did too bad today.

[Marbot]

I thought that Massa had quite a good race today, but unfortunately, Ferrari didn't.

[Born Racer]

He didn't do too terribly today; it's just that Ferrari are considering their resources, somewhat disastrous.

[Lancsbreaker]

Fairly uninspiring....but so was Alonso.....

[aridshelter]

He's not been the same driver since his accident, and much as I like the guy, I think it's clear he's not going to get back to his previous form, and it's time for Ferrari to look elsewhere for the future.

Having said that, there are probably bigger problems going on at Ferrari at the moment, so I'm not expecting a possible driver change mid-season to really solve anything...

[JeremySmith]

I thought Felipe did a very good job today, it's plain to that the car is a real handful...

[Paradise City]

I thought Alonso had a far more erratic race than Massa. Massa just seemed to stay quiet didn't mount much resistance to anything whilst Alonso was having a crack at all and sundry but just getting it thrown back in his face, offs..etc.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I thought Alonso had a far more erratic race than Massa. Massa just seemed to stay quiet didn't mount much resistance to anything whilst Alonso was having a crack at all and sundry but just getting it thrown back in his face, offs..etc.

Yes I agree, the track was full of marbles off the racing line..

[chillibowl]

also felt it was a solid race from massa. he might not be the same driver since the accident but that hardly means he was better than alonso before it either or would be after it...although i actually found myself wondering what massa could have done with a two stopper in a sauber.

[SilverSpeed]

Well Ferrari are stuck with him until years end. Perez said he is sticking with Sauber until the end of the season on the weekend

[ECW Dan Selby]

In conclusion, this topic could have been posted on any race over the past 2 years, other than this one, and people would have agreed

He had a good race in a crap car.

Selby

[stripedcat]

Actually, he did drive quite well today. He was on the wrong strategy, but still a decent race from him. However, it does look like he will be out by the end of the year.

[Flat Out Farr]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

In conclusion, this topic could have been posted on any race over the past 2 years, other than this one, and people would have agreed

He had a good race in a crap car.

Selby

Comments by other forum users tend to reflect my own feelings:-

1] yet again another mediocre Ferrari
2] The accident has had a bigger effect on Massa than I think he is admitting
3] other teams have upped the ante (excellent news) and this means that the big teams aren't walking away with top 3 positions
4] as much as i am not an Alonso fan, I cannot dispute the fact that he is a good driver, and he is punching his weight much further up the grid with the 2012 car than most people would.

Before Ferrari dump Massa, give him a half decent car first !!

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Flat Out Farr

Comments by other forum users tend to reflect my own feelings:-

1] yet again another mediocre Ferrari
2] The accident has had a bigger effect on Massa than I think he is admitting
3] other teams have upped the ante (excellent news) and this means that the big teams aren't walking away with top 3 positions
4] as much as i am not an Alonso fan, I cannot dispute the fact that he is a good driver, and he is punching his weight much further up the grid with the 2012 car than most people would.

Before Ferrari dump Massa, give him a half decent car first !!

Ferrari's 0.8-1sec off the pace is just a bunch of **** imo. Alonso and Perez completely dominated the field at Malaysia, and apart from Maldonado and Lotus he would have dominated Spain as well. They might be a bit off in quali's, and Massa is having issues, but Alonso's been fairly dominant in 2/5 races, at least in comparison to Red Bull and Mclaren in those 2 races. Hell McLaren were on the verge of going a lap down at Spain.

Red Bull and McLaren have been fast, but they haven't dominated any races well ahead of their other contenders. Well, I suppose Vettel only had the Lotus' to contend with at Bahrain but Red Bull hasn't shown such strong pace anywhere else this year.

Sure the Ferrari isn't the fastest car and Alonso drove 2 great races this year, but it's hard to tell the true pace of the car when you don't have a proper teammate to measure yourself against.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Sure the Ferrari isn't the fastest car and Alonso drove 2 great races this year, but it's hard to tell the true pace of the car when you don't have a proper teammate to measure yourself against.

I agree. I think we'd all agree that Felipe isn't upto Fernando's standard, but if Fernando is finishing 3rd, Massa should be up in 6th minimum.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by Flat Out Farr

Comments by other forum users tend to reflect my own feelings:-

1] yet again another mediocre Ferrari
2] The accident has had a bigger effect on Massa than I think he is admitting
3] other teams have upped the ante (excellent news) and this means that the big teams aren't walking away with top 3 positions
4] as much as i am not an Alonso fan, I cannot dispute the fact that he is a good driver, and he is punching his weight much further up the grid with the 2012 car than most people would.

Before Ferrari dump Massa, give him a half decent car first !!

Erm, i'm not sure you saw my other Massa related posts

I said, for that race, he did a good drive in a not so good car.

Apart from that? Not so good at all. I can't justify him being alongside someone that's driving the car beyond its capabilities.

You gotta let a young gun have a shot.

Selby

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

You gotta let a young gun have a shot.

Selby

Massa's 31, though having said that Alonso is 30 but he's producing the results.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Massa's 31, though having said that Alonso is 30 but he's producing the results.

That's why i'm suggesting Ferrari should replace Massa and not Alonso

Selby

[JeremySmith]

I am not sure anyone else would do a better job with that car..

[bravo]

Get Massa into a Sauber - I'm sure he could do better with a less Alonso-specific car under him.

[Razzzor]

I don't think the 2 stop was the wrong strategy. Vettel was 14th after the first dozen laps and nearly finished 2nd. There's no way he would have finished there if he did a 3 stop. Rosberg won the race by 20 seconds on a 2 stop. It didn't work out for some like Raikonnen because they didn't manage to make the tyres last, but those who could make them last long enough, that was the better strategy. IMO.

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by bravo

Get Massa into a Sauber - I'm sure he could do better with a less Alonso-specific car under him.

Interesting. Speaking personally I had not stopped to consider what impact if any this may have had. Its been proven many times that setup going in the favoured direction of a "golden boy" has often been to the detriment of the team mate. Hell, Vettel is a little off with the balance of this years RBR and all of a sudden its 2010 again with Webber about on level pegging...the chassis/balance seems a peculiar thing and creates some seesaw form

I seem to recall Alonso likes a pushy/understeery car. Any idea what Massa prefers?

I dont really buy the "Massa has not been the same since the accident" line. I think the team/car has not been the same. With Alonso coming in...successive cars sucking...I think the German GP team order fiasco has had more affect on Massa then the accident. Up to the Canadian GP, actually you could say British GP where Alonso bashed into Massa when passing, just like in China when Alonso did a dive bomb on pit entry....I just dont think the environment is the same as it was and mentally he is now doing a DC

I respect the guy out of site simply for how he handled the Hamilton WDC.

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

Interesting. Speaking personally I had not stopped to consider what impact if any this may have had. Its been proven many times that setup going in the favoured direction of a "golden boy" has often been to the detriment of the team mate. Hell, Vettel is a little off with the balance of this years RBR and all of a sudden its 2010 again with Webber about on level pegging...the chassis/balance seems a peculiar thing and creates some seesaw form

I seem to recall Alonso likes a pushy/understeery car. Any idea what Massa prefers?

I dont really buy the "Massa has not been the same since the accident" line. I think the team/car has not been the same. With Alonso coming in...successive cars sucking...I think the German GP team order fiasco has had more affect on Massa then the accident. Up to the Canadian GP, actually you could say British GP where Alonso bashed into Massa when passing, just like in China when Alonso did a dive bomb on pit entry....I just dont think the environment is the same as it was and mentally he is now doing a DC

I respect the guy out of site simply for how he handled the Hamilton WDC.

I seem to recall, from the TV piece about F1 driving styles, that Alonso has an aggressive style of driving. As you said he likes an understeery type of car setup.

I think Massa has a more Schumacher/Senna/Hamilton style of driving. That is, he likes the back end of the car quite loose, prone to oversteer, good turn-in and balancing the oversteer more with the throttle than with the steering.

I agree that you can't put it all down to the accident in Hungary. If so, how come back at first race in Bahrain in 2010, he out-qualified his teammate - fair enough he got beaten in the race, but he still ended up in 2nd position.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bravo

Get Massa into a Sauber - I'm sure he could do better with a less Alonso-specific car under him.

So very true!