Virgin - The discussion thread

[cds_uk]

It has occured to me that there has been very little talk about this team one way or the other since they arrived, lots about Lotus and HRT so i thought why not start something, how do you guys think they are doing, all a bit underwhelming this year, i think they have the best driver out of the three new teams in Glock but even he cant seem to do much with the new car, what happens if the updates dont improve it, even if they do i cant see them catching up to the back of the pack then surely Timo will think "whats the point" If at the end of the year Virgin have dropped further away than last year will Mr Branson pull the plug, will John Booth try to muddle on on his own, discuss.

[Marbot]

What Virgin needs is a good......wind tunnel.

Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

What Virgin needs is a good......wind tunnel.

I thought was were Richard Branson came in...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I thought was were Richard Branson came in...

I think that he only buys aeroplanes. I don't think he makes them.

Marussia are now the biggest shareholder in the team (correct me if I'm wrong), so maybe they should be calling the shots now?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I think that he only buys aeroplanes. I don't think he makes them.

Marussia are now the biggest shareholder in the team (correct me if I'm wrong), so maybe they should be calling the shots now?

They need to spend some money.

What changes have they made to the car? It still looks 'little' compared to everything else, which makes me think it's just a modified 2010 chassis?

It would be fair enough them continuing to muck around at the back if it wasn't for the fact that an excellent driver's F1 career was being terminally damaged in the process.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by chunterer

It would be fair enough them continuing to muck around at the back if it wasn't for the fact that an excellent driver's F1 career was being terminally damaged in the process.

No doubt Jenson Button felt much the same way about Honda.

[old man]

Have to agree about the wind tunnel. I have been very sceptical since day one that you can do it all by CFD and there have been discussion threads here and on other sections of the forum on the validity of the work done in this way.

In connection with my day job CFD is often used in building design for fire safety engineering and again I am very sceptical about the results obtained. I am, I know, somewhat old fashioned and I was interested to see if Nick Wirth's claims held up in practice and so far they are struggling. What did well in sportscar racing is up against totally different opposition in F1 and if I were John Booth I would now be hedging my bets.

[cds_uk]

You do have to wonder if they have not really improved by the end of the year weather they may have to rethink the entirely on the lap top ethos, having said that are they in a position to do that as long as Wirth is heading up the tech side of things?

[duke_toaster]

Possibly, but let's see how the future of the team goes in all sorts of ways, but if Branson pulls the plug they're going to be in the Hispania situation if not worse.

Originally Posted by Marbot

Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier.

Sorry, had no option but to sig that

[kipper]

I'm not convinced that Richard Branson will the plug on the team; as I understand it, Virgin contributes little to the funding of the team. As a result of this, the exposure that the Virgin company can gain is probably of some value. The main problem is that the lack of performance may deter conventional sponsors.

[Marbot]

Isn't it the car company 'Marussia' that has a significant stake in Virgin Racing? Hence the team name, Marrusia Virgin Racing.

[GTRMagic]

Mr Wirth has promised a lot, and delivered 3 chassis designs.. none of which has threatened a Red Bull, except when they get in the way while being lapped...

[Hawkwood]

It seems to going Pete Tong for Virgin as Hispania learn more about their car.
Both Hispanias just beat both Virgins in FP2, and by nearly a full second it seems.

[MrTTraces]

Virgin discussion thread... Not about a thread about Katie Price then

Seriously thou they are doing the best they can and hopefully the upgrades they add make a positive difference.

Not sure exactly how much Bready Branson is pumping in to the outfit but rest assured he'll want a return on his bucks so he will be pushing them to go forward.

[Chiefy]

I'd be surprised to see Glock sticking around at Virgin beyond the end of the season - unless any significant improvements are made before that time. He was such a solid driver for Toyota. His talents look wasted here. I can actually see Hispania overhauling Virgin (again) before the year is out, especially with Liuzzi on board there. Liuzzi is no better than Glock, but I think he has more to prove.

If Glock were to leave at the end of the season, where would he go? Williams, maybe? Sauber, STR and Force India would all count as a 'promotion' of sorts, but Sauber has invested in promising young drivers, STR exists to do the same, and Force India has Hulkenberg waiting in the wings for when Sutil is given the boot.

Red Bull? :P

I don't want to see the team capitulate. But I think progress will be very slow, and hindered even more if the star driver walks.

[chunder]

To be fair to Glock, the car is a complete turd!

He was a regular challenger for points and would have expected after a learning year to be a bit quicker this year.

And looking at it, the car is no better than a pile of rubbish Hispania that is a refettled 2010 car!

Not good enough and fair enough to get stuffy in my eyes, he is a quality driver in my eyes.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chunder

To be fair to Glock, the car is a complete turd!

Glock disagrees with you

"The basic concept of it is not that bad. It is driveable, it is not out of balance, there just isn't enough grip. It's quite easy – it's the downforce we don't have."

[cds_uk]

If Symonds is already there as a consultant why not bring him in full time, it could only help. Glock is by far the biggest asset that the team has, the last thing they need is for him to become apathetic toward the whole operation. A lot depends on these upgrades but as has already been said everyone else will be bolting on new bits aswell, the best they can hope for is to pull away from HRT and to close up a bit on the rest of the field, cant see them racing anyone but themselves for the rest of the year though and thats a shame.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by cds_uk

If Symonds is already there as a consultant why not bring him in full time, it could only help.

They can't. He's banned until 2013.

[Knowlesy]

Glock is right in what he says surely? Virgin seem to make no progress ever. They couldn't even calculate the fuel tank correctly last season.

Their faith in CFD seems a bit unerring.

[chunterer]

Totally right, the guy is potentially a front runner and he's doing worse than he did last year because the team has gone backwards.

It's ruining his career - he surely would've expected improvements this season.

Presumably he's free end of this season then he might stand a chance of getting a decent ride again.

I don't think Jerome out-qualifying him a couple of times will make much difference to his stock, as the german is the lynchpin of the team at the mo.

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Totally right, the guy is potentially a front runner

Really? Heidfeld outqualified him 4 to zero. Trulli did 25 to 7. He did have some decent races in a 400million dollar Toyota but even those years must have been pretty cold for him in the shadow of Trulli.

Originally Posted by chunterer

and he's doing worse than he did last year because the team has gone backwards.

Last time I've checked he was actually a part of the TEAM. Virgin coulda gone for two pay-drivers, instead they are giving Glock the team-leader status and a salary. He must share some of the responsibilty I would think. Your team is going backwards? Thats not doing a great job as a lead driver. The only thing he could possibly prove by going to Virgin is that he can make something out of nothing. Thats precisely what he can not do it appears.

Originally Posted by chunterer

It's ruining his career

It's not like he had a lot of options for 2010. Viring pretty much SAVED his career.

Originally Posted by chunterer

Presumably he's free end of this season then he might stand a chance of getting a decent ride again.

I dont recall his name coming up with a half-decent ride lately but lets wait and see I guess

Originally Posted by chunterer

I don't think Jerome out-qualifying him a couple of times will make much difference to his stock.

A couple of times probably wont. A little few than a couple of times might very well do.

[chunterer]

newlaprecord, cracking attempt at an argument for the team there. full praise.

I think that Glock had truly put Trulli in the sahde by the end of 2009 and was often the more competitve Toyota driver, indeed a couple of his drives that season were fantastic which suggested there might even be a potentiao for a win at last but sadly they pulled the plug, and tbh it was the right thing to do for all the resources that had been squandered.

Timo was the first proper racer 'on the way' that the team had employed and it showed.

You complain about Glock moaning about his equipment, but then haven't a great many drivers done that in the past, such as Hamilton, Alonso, Senna, Prost etc etc? and

Usually it actually spurs things into action rather than makes things worse.

Obiously it would help Glock if he was saying such things in a more established team but the guy knows he is better than his current lot and would be very very keen to prove it. He wants the team to do better because he will do better!!

Also I think you may also find that Renault and Williams were looking at him last year, but he was under contract for this year and crucially for such teams doesn't have any money to bring!

The end of this season may be different for him, we'll see.

[Super Hans]

We'd expect Glock to praise the team if the car was good, wouldn't we? Well, it works both ways.

[cds_uk]

Having thought about this for a while now how long do the team persevere with Nick Wirth, if the updates dont bring a big improvement what then? I am assuming even if the updates do work at best they will close up a bit to the back of the grid, so that will be two seasons trailing around near the back, do they stick with him for a third season, more of the same, a fourth season? Would they ever consider parting company with Wirth and getting someone like Dallara to build a car so they could at least get it in a wind tunnel or would they just pack up and be done with it all, experiment failed.