So what is a dangerous position, and what isn't?

[racer69]

I was amazed at the double standards that were shown in the closing stages of the race today.

Jason Richards car was in a very similiar position to Marcus Marshall's earlier, yet one warranted a safety car, and the other didn't.

The aim was obviously to produce a flying finish (rather than have the race end under safety car), but surely whether it is lap 59 or 159, a dangerous position is a dangerous position, is it not?

If the Jason Richards car wasn't considered in a bad place, why then for instance was a yellow called for the David Brabham accident (when there was a 4WD visible from the air shot which could have towed the car out the back of the trap), and most of all for Richards' original off at the Caltex Chase??

Particularly with the last one for Richards at the Chase (when Lowndes was a marginally comfortable first, and third was half a minute back), can anyone hear 'competition yellow'?


The amount of safety cars were a farce, we had the potential of a cracking race, yet everytime someone sneezed the Chrysler was sent out.

The proponents of more cars in the Bathurst field are always told that only allowing the main series regulars means a higher quality race, without the field fillers causing accidents and getting in the way.

This race (and the last few as well) has shown that fewer cars certainly don't mean fewer safety cars or carnage.

[Peddler]

Kelly's have got a lot of money to throw around... I bet it would of been different if it was a Holden in front and Ford chasing

[RotorFan]

Originally Posted by Peddler

Kelly's have got a lot of money to throw around... I bet it would of been different if it was a Holden in front and Ford chasing

Its sad that you think thats the way V8 Supercars works.


Who has double standards? People say there are too many safety cars at Bathurst and then when they don't bring one out with 2 laps to go to clear a safely positioned car, people complain.

If they did bring out the safety car and we finished under yellow, we'd never hear the end of it on here.


There is nothing unusual about the decision to leave it as local yellow flags when the race is close to conclusion. That scenario is the same the world over - except in NASCAR where they have the "green-white checkered finish".

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

except in NASCAR where they have the "green-white checkered finish".

First used at the Thunderdome here in Melbourne and then adopted by NASCAR in the USA.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

Who has double standards? People say there are too many safety cars at Bathurst and then when they don't bring one out with 2 laps to go to clear a safely positioned car, people complain.

They complain because of the inconsistency. The clear use and non use of the Safety Car to build up and design races.

Consistency as with anything is where the problem lays.

[hoffy]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

They complain because of the inconsistency. The clear use and non use of the Safety Car to build up and design races.

Consistency as with anything is where the problem lays.

That was my point exactly. There were many less dangerous incidents during the day where they sent out the safety car. I also agree that they use the damn thing too often, but it is needed & in my opinion, it was needed for J Richards car.

[TSR]

Originally Posted by racer69

I was amazed at the double standards that were shown in the closing stages of the race today.

Jason Richards car was in a very similiar position to Marcus Marshall's earlier, yet one warranted a safety car, and the other didn't.

The aim was obviously to produce a flying finish (rather than have the race end under safety car), but surely whether it is lap 59 or 159, a dangerous position is a dangerous position, is it not?

If the Jason Richards car wasn't considered in a bad place, why then for instance was a yellow called for the David Brabham accident (when there was a 4WD visible from the air shot which could have towed the car out the back of the trap), and most of all for Richards' original off at the Caltex Chase??

Particularly with the last one for Richards at the Chase (when Lowndes was a marginally comfortable first, and third was half a minute back), can anyone hear 'competition yellow'?


The amount of safety cars were a farce, we had the potential of a cracking race, yet everytime someone sneezed the Chrysler was sent out.

The proponents of more cars in the Bathurst field are always told that only allowing the main series regulars means a higher quality race, without the field fillers causing accidents and getting in the way.

This race (and the last few as well) has shown that fewer cars certainly don't mean fewer safety cars or carnage.

I said it before the safety car will be the death of Bathurst

[James63]

Richards car was in MORE of a dangerous position than that of Marshalls. Marshall was hard against the wall, whereas Richards was on the racing side of the white line. What if he was hurt???

[hoffy]

I agree, (& this is probably going to be an unpopular comment), but that race SHOULD HAVE FINISHED UNDER YELLOW. Richards car was in as a dangerous place as any when he crashed up the top. Freak accidents dont descriminate between lap 1 or lap 161

[Peter Ford]

this regards the final period when Jason richards went off in the sandtrap,was it necessary?and why didnt they bring it out after he crashed out in the closing minutes of the race,if it was kelly in front and lowndes catching them they would have brought the safely car out.

[moses]

we have already seen some serious accidents at the mountain this year alone, plus how many cars came to grief at that particular corner. What if, and its a big What if, another car lost control in the same spot, and carreered into JR's stricken commodore, again we have seen this weekend what can happen when a car moving at speed hits a stationary car. A lot of ifs and buts I know, but the fact of the matter remains, regardless of the lap number or how the race will finish, safety must come first.

[Raglanparade]

I think there shouldnt have been a safety car for half of the accidents today.

What is wrong with a local yellow and a tractor to pull the car behind the barriers ???

theres no need to put the car on a tipper truck and all the way back to the pits is there ??

[woodbine]

Surely the difference between the Marshall crash and the Richards one was the amount of debris on the track?

[leaso]

How good was the driver in the saftey car trying to take out a car at the exit to pit lane.


Supossed to be the saftey car and the ****** didnt even check his mirrors

[Alco]

What a joke. It was obvious that they wanted to give the Kellys a chance to beat 888. When car 3 was in the sand trap it should have been left there. On that occasion they obviously wanted to close the field up so out came the saftey car.

[Chatters]

Originally Posted by leaso

How good was the driver in the saftey car trying to take out a car at the exit to pit lane.


Supossed to be the saftey car and the ****** didnt even check his mirrors

It was Steven Richards (or PD) in the JDR car. Needless to say for once I wasn't yelling at another Holden or Ford driver... But a Chrysler driver.

This is clear double standards, and it's only that way because they don't want the race to end under boring old Safety Car conditions... Although, if they didn't call a Safety Car for Richards' first incident, he wouldn't have crashed a second time...

[Raglanparade]

With the richards car though (at the chase and the top of the hill).. why cant we just have local yellows and the car dragged behind the barriers (like F1).

Surely we can put a hoop on the roof of the cars that a crane can hook onto to retreive cars like in f1 if the tractor is deemed to much of a risk.

[The Snout]

Should have been a safety car for the Richards wreck, no 2 ways.

[D.R.T.]

Good to see V8SC is continually adopting more of the Nascar mentality.

All in all an appalling attempt to try and design a finish.

[kosher_pig]

nothing like a good CODE 76 to bunch the field up

[MPA]

Racer 69.

In trying to determine when a car is in a dangerous position, Race Control will consider how many laps to go, and how many cars left on the circuit.

A car in the same position half way though the event will be exposed to much more risk due to the amount of cars racing and how many times they’ll pass the scene.

IMHO the car was in a safer position when it fell off the track and stopped on the edge of The Chase. It should have been left there for the last ten laps. To recover it with two laps to go from the top of the mountain may have smelt like a commercial decision by the organisers to avoid having to send a recovery truck up to the top of the mountain after the event and under the control of the yobbos instead of Race Control.


They were right to leave it there and let 38 cars pass it under yellow flags and radio communications that all teams have. You do realise the teams have to obey directives from Race Control on their Two Way Channel. Such information is no longer advisory, it’s a command.

[deeks6]

If anyone ever had even a modicum of doubt that the "safety" car is just a tool designed to let the organisers manipulate races, it would surely have disappeared today.

E.G. 1 - safety car deployed because of "stricken car" on top of the mountain but Dumbrell is waved through and consequently passes the scene at race pace to get on the back of the queue. Real safe!

E.G. 2 - Jason Richards car is in about the safest place possible - he leapfrogged the road at about 250+ and still didnt hit the fence because of the sand trap - how could another car POSSIBLY be in danger of hitting him or anything else?

E.G. 3 Jason Richards car is in a GENUINELY dangerous position next time but, no - we race on

Call me cynical ...

[MPA]

Deeks

EG.1 Cars are waved passed the SC all the time.

EG.2 I'd have to agree, the car was safe enough off the track.

EG.3 I'd say with the amount of time left in the race, how many cars would passed the scene before comming under control of the SC and how many laps to go, the stricken car should have been covered under yellow flags.

[chavez]

The difference is the length of the potential exposure.

The chance of another car hitting the Glenford's Tools car (it crashed with 73 laps to go car) is far greater than than hitting the Tasman car with only 2 laps to go.

The call made by race control not to deploy a safety car on lap 159 is pretty much what happens in road racing around the world.

[deeks6]

You missed the point - if the "Safety car" was truly about safety and there was a dangerous situation , NO CARS would be waved past and form a queue at a "safe" speed.

It AINT about "safety" - one day, they will truly pay for this and someone will have a big moment at a crash scene after being waved through. Then it gonna be Lawyer City.

Just like balaklavas aint about safety, just like 3 wheeled cars screaming back to the pits aint about safety ... need I go on?