Chassis History Archive Project

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

The problem with threads as long as this and the Chevron B29 one is I , and possibly others forget exactly where we are , a case in point being a BT29 I have been advised of landing in N.Z. recently , BT29-41 to be prescise , without trolling all the way back I am unable to remember if we know about this car. Bryan.

Bryan, if there is any way you can suggest we can split these long threads to make it easier for you guys to refer to, let us know. I'm certainly happy to set up a specific thread for example on an individual chassis number if there are enough posts on it. You just name it and I'll try to split the relevant posts out.

[allenbrown]

Hi John

Thanks for the offer. The difficulty will be where some individual posts make reference to two subjects. Could they be duplicated if necessary?

For example, we might be able to work out a separate thread on BT30s need to contain posts 1-13 plus 15-18 etc but a separate BT35 thread would need posts 11-15 plus 17-18 etc. If that sort of split would be possible, I'd volunteer to spend some time going through the posts trying to figure it out.

The alternative would to create a new BT30 thread and a new BT35 thread (etc) with fresh posts that sum up where we got to with this thread. The latter is probably no more work but would give us a better foundation for taking the research forward.

Allen

[allenbrown]

Kind of scary when you actually look through this thread. Some of the digressions would need their own threads too: e.g. the Moser BT30/BT36 story.

There's some really valuable stuff in here if we can only get at it.

Allen

[John Turner]

Right, you give me a list of the threads you require, and if you can, also identify the posts (long job, I know!), then I'll split them out. Where a post is relevant to more than one thread, it may be that we will simply have to copy that post across from one thread to the other.

[allenbrown]

John

Thanks for offering to do this. Greatly appreciated.

Is there a way to get the whole thread onto a single page? I don't seem to be able to get more that 40 posts at a time. I'd be skipping up and down so much this would be quite a pain.

Bryan, Andrew, David, Chris, Ted et al. Are you happy for this thread to be chopped up like this?

Allen

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Bryan, Andrew, David, Chris, Ted et al. Are you happy for this thread to be chopped up like this?

More than happy
Especially if some postings can appear in more than one thread

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by David McKinney

More than happy
Especially if some postings can appear in more than one thread

I just worked through the first 100 posts to see how hard this would be and there are a lot of posts that would need to be split or duplicated. Originally I was thinking about just quoting a post - e.g. allocating a post in a new BT35 thread but quoting it in a new BT30 thread as well - but as I went through there seemed more where a split would make more sense.

So far, the threads would be: BT30s (34 posts), BT35s (39 posts), BT36s (44 posts), BT28s (7 posts) and "the Render Brabhams" (8 posts). The fact that those add up to 132 instead of 100 shows the amount of duplication.

I'll keep going to see if it starts to make more sense.

Allen

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

So far, the threads would be: BT30s (34 posts), BT35s (39 posts), BT36s (44 posts), BT28s (7 posts) and "the Render Brabhams" (8 posts). The fact that those add up to 132 instead of 100 shows the amount of duplication. Allen

Plenty of work here but I don't mind splitting these off. My main concern is the number of duplicates that you refer to, identifying them easily and then trying to slot them in chronologically. However, I do think this is all worthwhile. I just think that we need to take a bit of care and it might take a while to get all the threads up the way you want.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Is there a way to get the whole thread onto a single page? I don't seem to be able to get more that 40 posts at a time. I'd be skipping up and down so much this would be quite a pain. Allen

Allen, no I don't think there is a way of getting more posts on a single page. I can when splitting the threads, but I still have to scroll down, and I only see the first line of each post which doesn't always help.

I've split this off so that guests and other posters don't get fed up with us discussing the process rather than see info about the chassis. I'm also sticking this up until we have agreed and completed the task. I think there are too many of you interested in this to take this discussion off line by PMs.

[Chris Townsend]

It would make my life much easier if we dealt with volume producers
like Brabham, March Lola and Chevron in specific model threads

Chris

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

It would make my life much easier if we dealt with volume producers
like Brabham, March Lola and Chevron in specific model threads

Chris

Agreed!

[allenbrown]

Hi John

You're not kidding about it being a lot of work. Tedious, unexciting work too!

I've got as far as post 445 so I'm well on my way. The problem has turned out to be those posts that list, for example, every Brabham in sprints or in hillclimbs as these need to appear in several of the new threads. One of those was my fault!

I think we'll have threads for: BT21/21B/21C/21X, BT23/23B/23C, BT28, BT29/29X, BT30/30X, BT35/35X, BT36, BT38/38C and BT40; and then separate threads for the David Render Brabhams and the Silvio Moser Brabham and finally one for "Unidentified Brabhams".

I'll type up all my scribbles tomorrow and pass them to you. The we can debate how best to make the changes.

I am very grateful for your willingness to do this John. I'm sure you know how many hours work you're letting yourself in for.

Allen

[John Turner]

Seriously though, I want to get it right, so we'll get one up and running; probably the BT30 thread because that is where Bryan started it (actually it's all Bryan's fault because he went berserk and kept adding new model types! ), check that we are all happy with it, and then move on to the next one. One step at a time eh?

[Bryan Miller]

John,

Many thanks for agreeing to do this and whatever you chaps decide will be O.K. by me, I would offer to assist but I haven't even figured out how to post smilies yet.

Regards Bryan.

[diz]

And don't forget the BT9 [I think] that became the Alan Minshaw Blackjack FF1600. I'd still like to locate that one

[Andrew Fellowes]

To be fair Bryan wanted to put the 23s into a new tread and I jumped the gun, on reflection of course a thread for each as Allen is doing is the ultimate. With luck I will have some small updates on 30s.

[Bryan Miller]

O.K. it's all my fault , I can take it , I have broad shoulders .

The biggest nightmare will be the beloved Chevron B29 thread , that one goes everywhere and then some.

Bryan.

[John Turner]

Well, Bryan, I'm happy to help turn all these threads into properly structured archive material in order that 10-Tenths becomes a leading source for historians and researchers!

I also think that I have worked out a way of avoiding the cutting and pasting of individual posts which have to go into more than one thread, by copying the whole thread to a 'Holding' area for me to work on without moving the original thread.

[allenbrown]

I'm just sending the breakdown to John. You may be able to hear the shriek all the way from Spaulding...

Allen

[John Turner]

Or Spalding, even! I'll start tomorrow; I propose to title each one in a standard way - 'Brabham BT?? - Chassis History', if that's OK?

[Bryan Miller]

John, perfect.

[John Turner]

Finally, after about 8 hours work, I've posted the first BT (30) thread. This proved far more difficult than at first envisaged as the split thread mode does not show the post numbers, so I had to print the pages off (64 of them!) and number them up manually and then check them against the thread.

Allen, I have 'pruned' the posts a bit more than you suggested, in an attempt to:-

1) Keep the thread as close to purely BT30 specific as possible, without however, hopefully damaging the continuity.
2) Eradicate references to posts and comments that are no longer on this thread

Note also that:-

1) I added posts 140-144, 161, 163-169, from the original thread, which didn't appear on your list, Allen
2) That if any of you want me to change, add or remove any of the posts, you must give me the numbers from the NEW thread, as obviously, with the exception of posts 1-13, they will now differ from the originator thread.
2) That if I have 'pruned' too much and you are unhappy that the relationship to the BT35/36s is lost, I can do this again (The really hard work has already been done!), but we can always post links if absolutely necessary.
3) None of your posts have been lost - the bits I have edited out will reappear in the appropriate other BT threads.
4) I have received emails from a few of you and will take on board your comments as I prepare the appropriate threads. If I haven't done as you asked or requested, it will be because I have a query which I will get back to you on.

If any of you can let me know what you think, before I carry on with the others, I'd appreciate it. You can post it here, unless you want to be too rude ( ). If you are happy with the outcome, I'll get on with the BT35 thread tomorrow, and that will be the two most difficult (sizewise, anyway!) threads out the way.

I'm going for a lie down, now!

[allenbrown]

You're a hero John. The new thread is much more manageable at only two-and-a-half pages and should enable the experts to sum up with a "where are we now" post. Bryan or Andrew are strongest on this subject, I'd guess.

Originally Posted by John Turner

1) I added posts 140-144, 161, 163-169, from the original thread, which didn't appear on your list, Allen

The reason for that is that I'd suggested putting the entire conversation about the two Moser cars (posts 140-170) into a separate thread because all 31 posts were relevant to his BT30 and were also relevant to his BT36. If people think it's better split between the BT30 and BT36 threads, I won't argue.

I estimate the BT35 thread at 123 posts and the BT36 thread at 133 posts plus whatever it gets out of the planned Moser thread. After that it's plain sailing

Thanks

Allen

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

The reason for that is that I'd suggested putting the entire conversation about the two Moser cars (posts 140-170) into a separate thread because all 31 posts were relevant to his BT30 and were also relevant to his BT36. If people think it's better split between the BT30 and BT36 threads, I won't argue.

I estimate the BT35 thread at 123 posts and the BT36 thread at 133 posts plus whatever it gets out of the planned Moser thread. After that it's plain sailing Allen

Sorry, Allen, as I was scrolling down the list, I kept seeing posts about a BT30 which I thought you had overlooked. Comes of concentrating on one chassis type, I guess.

Yes, I'd overlooked the number of BT36 posts. Never mind, we'll get there! Might take a few days, to get it all sorted though!

[allenbrown]

Rather than having this debate on the Chevron B29 thread itself, I thought it had suffered enough.

I had a quick browse through the thread and although it's a little shorter than the Brabham thread, it ranges over many, many subjects. Should we try to break it up like the Brabham thread or do we take a more pragmatic approach and just try to prune some of the more distinct subjects out of it, for example the Modus or GRD content?

Do we see how much value we get from the Brabham thread breakdown first?

Allen