HRT/TWR Cars

TSR · 15 Jun 2007, 10:49 (Ref:1937588)

We all know that there is a 4 car HRT TEAM, but after watching the Creek meeting on TV. I noticed that even the drivers are now saying that they are racing against a 4 car HRT TEAM and not 2 separate teams as both Holden & VE$A try to tell us.

So much for TEGA doing there job properly

billy bigtime · 15 Jun 2007, 10:53 (Ref:1937591)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSR

We all know that there is a 4 car HRT TEAM, but after watching the Creek meeting on TV. I noticed that even the drivers are now saying that they are racing against a 4 car HRT TEAM and not 2 separate teams as both Holden & VE$A try to tell us.

So much for TEGA doing there job properly

Tell us something we don't know

n.kuiper · 15 Jun 2007, 11:05 (Ref:1937597)

yea its definately a four car team they share everything so they have all the benefits of a four car team but it shouldnt be allowed data sharing should only be allowed between two single car teams or else just a bit stupid. If something isnt done to stop it i think we will see other teams doing it in the future maybe triple 8 and stones could try it.

billybanana · 15 Jun 2007, 11:07 (Ref:1937601)

Quote:

Originally Posted by n.kuiper

so they have all the benefits of a four car team

yeah like reduced number of test days.

dsg · 15 Jun 2007, 14:45 (Ref:1937728)

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybanana

yeah like reduced number of test days.

You mean after the VE was given a supercar logbook.

Pro Racer · 15 Jun 2007, 16:17 (Ref:1937792)

do we really need another disscusion on this topic.

Buckshot · 16 Jun 2007, 01:09 (Ref:1938075)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

do we really need another disscusion on this topic.

Ford fans are bad losers, as long as a Holden wins anything they'll always be whinging and there will be threads like this.

I've always thought Kleenex are missing a golden sponsorship oppurtunity, If they could become the official tissue to V8 Supercar (like that deal Jim Beam have) the sales to Ford fans in tissues alone from all the crying would pay for a race budget and then some.

stmorri · 16 Jun 2007, 01:47 (Ref:1938084)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckshot

Ford fans are bad losers, as long as a Holden wins anything they'll always be whinging and there will be threads like this.

Isn't it the case that Garry Rogers is also fed up with the situation?......I can't imagine that he is a Ford Fan!

Buckshot · 16 Jun 2007, 02:04 (Ref:1938086)

GRM haven't been on the pace (except for McConville's fluke win at Winton) since Tander & Bargs left and they also let themselves get distracted with that Monaro that killed Nation's Cup.

stmorri · 16 Jun 2007, 02:59 (Ref:1938102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckshot

GRM haven't been on the pace (except for McConville's fluke win at Winton) since Tander & Bargs left and they also let themselves get distracted with that Monaro that killed Nation's Cup.

That's not the issue......he is a loyal and long term Holden team owner that is not being allowed to compete on equal terms.

MPA · 16 Jun 2007, 07:01 (Ref:1938160)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmorri

That's not the issue......he is a loyal and long term Holden team owner that is not being allowed to compete on equal terms.

So we're going back to the future.....Remember the Group C era when unless you were in the factory backed HDT you never had a chance. Guys like Grice never stood a chance in their own cars.

For a couple of years in this V8 supercar era we got to a point where all the cars were equalish. Seems that's all gone again.

Shame about that.

deeks6 · 16 Jun 2007, 07:22 (Ref:1938168)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPA

So we're going back to the future.....Remember the Group C era when unless you were in the factory backed HDT you never had a chance. Guys like Grice never stood a chance in their own cars.

For a couple of years in this V8 supercar era we got to a point where all the cars were equalish. Seems that's all gone again.

Shame about that.

... which is the whole problem with "control" everything and compulsory pit stops etc etc ... no leeway for an innovative non-factory team to try different stuff that might work better.

If you have "Equal" everything, there is far MORE chance that the biggest spending factory team will win everything rather than less. This is just LOGIC - if the tiniest gain means an advantage on the track, the team who soends the most to find that little edge will win.

Look at NASCAR - they spend more on aerodynamics than F1 - on windscreen, roof profile, wedge etc - stuff you would'nt think would make a difference. You may find the Walkinshoddys do some very similar things - oh, and they have the most money ... gosh.

I think this series needs a dramatic rethink before it kills itself (and us) with boredom.

#Thirty4 · 16 Jun 2007, 07:56 (Ref:1938178)

How much closer racing do you want? (Tripple Eight & HRT at Eastern Creek) TSR and deeks6, im not sure what will make you happy. Talk about flogging the dead horse over and over again.

TSR · 16 Jun 2007, 08:27 (Ref:1938193)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeks6

...
I think this series needs a dramatic rethink before it kills itself (and us) with boredom.

Thats what this series has being like since the end of 2004. BORING.

Pro Racer · 16 Jun 2007, 11:10 (Ref:1938263)

we know fellow Holden competitors Tasman, JDRand GRM (not to sure about SCAR and PMM/RNR) and ford competitiors and fans alike are getting jack of it i am and i like the WP drivers but i like more then a 4 car 1 team race and am sick of the domination as well. the best race was R3 EC and the only evidence i have seem ford can keep up maybe 888 have got their game on and made gains or is EC just a good track for them? so we know the facts and non-facts about this issue so do we reallly need discusion after discusion about this issue.

can a ford clean sweep a round so this stuff stops.

STEALTHY · 16 Jun 2007, 13:02 (Ref:1938327)

Take a walk across the paddock maybe?

3 VIP porches, 3 glenfords (maybe 2 this year, were 3 last)

Thought i also saw 3 kanga Utes in one of the first years of the brutes

And across the pond we had 3 Audi's back in the day of BTCC

I think DJR were even running 3 in the devolpment series a while back.

JDR can't be compaining, a few years back Larry was contemplating having a 3 or 4 car team.

The whining is getting old now, if they are such a 4 car team, could you please go down there and paint all 4 cars the same. Data sharing is legal, which is the reason for less test days.

Would peoples opinions be different if the reams with more than 2 cars weren't winning? Back to the days where there were 3 Wynns cars, and they barly got a result.....

I like the idea of bigger teams, just because a team has more cars, doesn't mean it will win. Look at SBR, ambrose was a gun, yet ingall could barely finish. Clearly showing one car is totally different to the other

Pro Racer · 16 Jun 2007, 15:18 (Ref:1938536)

or maybe have TW build all the Holden cars and SBR or 888 to build the fords with everything as control parts, then they are all matched and if one is slower than the other then it's the team and their setup

.

v8smoker · 17 Jun 2007, 05:11 (Ref:1939390)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

or maybe have TW build all the Holden cars and SBR or 888 to build the fords with everything as control parts, then they are all matched and if one is slower than the other then it's the team and their setup

.

Thats what the differance between winning an not winning is now the team an there set up plus driver quality
The cream always rises to the top no matter what the rules are. If you want Andy Jones an BOC to win a race this year go find the Pixe dust

n.kuiper · 17 Jun 2007, 05:48 (Ref:1939417)

some of you guys are a glass half empty kind the championship is fine is not going down its going up theres more big name sponsors than ever and a way bigger tv audience, there are a few issues at the moment but its not the end of the world like some people think

Dazz · 17 Jun 2007, 01:21 (Ref:1939258)

When you look at it without goggles, the whole parity thing, it's really not an issue.

My wife commented on the weekend how much it looked like Todd Kelly was holding up Lowndes in the last race at the Creek and if he got past he'd most like pull away. I kind of agree with that.

She also commented that she was a little surprised that Skaife wasn't able to really make a strong challenge on Lowndes in that last race, considering how much pace he had in the earlier races.

So had Lowndes have qualified better and been in a better starting position from race one does anyone think he would not have been an equal chance to win some races?

Skaife proved you can start first and be third into the first corner and stay there no matter how good your car is working.

Tander also proved that having a fast car meant nothing once you're burried in the pack and is of very little use unless you can simply power past someone.

For whatever reason, the Walkinshaw cars have been hitting the track and have been quickish out of the box, meaning less tyres thrown at them to get into the top ten, and better rubber for the races, which logically means better race pace.

Would anyone hear say that Whincup is a better driver than Lowndes? They are in the same team, share the same car technology and have access to all the same data, yet so far Lowndes is looking like the lesser of the two drivers especially in qualifying.

If you play devils advocate and imagined Whincup was in a Commodore and Lowndes was in a Falcon you'd have to scream parity wouldn't you? Because obvioisly Lowndes should not be being dusted off like he is. Quite obviously Whincup's "Commodore" has a pure advantage in qualifying which must be aero related in some way and allows the car to work better in a qualifying format!

If you go the other way, who hear thinks that all four Walkinshaw cars are using exactly the same spring rates front and rear, damper settings, roll bar settings, tyre pressures, camber, castor, toe-in and ride height settings for every race?

Bottom line os for whatever reason, basically the HRT and Toll guys are getting the best from their cars at the moment. And that's not to say they are smarter or working harder or doing a better job, they just have found what works so far.

Lowndes and Kelly were putting in lap times only thousandths of a second apart so I really find it hard to blame parity for the race win tally this year.

Anyway, I'm sure this post will get torn apart but anyway that's what I think.

n.kuiper · 17 Jun 2007, 01:34 (Ref:1939269)

yea i think you are deffinately right people just look at the results not who had the best lap times and the fact that we are only just over a third of the season theres lots of racing to go so who knows what will happen for the rest of the year

observer · 17 Jun 2007, 09:28 (Ref:1939598)

[QUOTE=Dazz]She also commented that she was a little surprised that Skaife wasn't able to really make a strong challenge on Lowndes in that last race, considering how much pace he had in the earlier races.[QUOTE]

Don't reckon he tried, he just hung safe to win the round!

Apart from that, you all come on here and whinge about v8supercars,
how bad it is etc etc, if its making you feel that bad, don't watch the f$%^&g thing.

stmorri · 17 Jun 2007, 23:03 (Ref:1940342)

Quote:

Originally Posted by observer

Apart from that, you all come on here and whinge about v8supercars,
how bad it is etc etc, if its making you feel that bad, don't watch the f$%^&g thing.

The most interesting thing about the V8's is coming on this forum and arguing with everyone, and if we don't watch the telecast, well then we can't argue!

pete55 · 17 Jun 2007, 05:58 (Ref:1939422)

Where are the more big name sponsors compared to what we had 2 years ago or even five years ago. As for TV audience, way bigger? I don't know about that either. More teams are struggling to fund their teams now than there were a few years ago. Merchandising sales if you believe the word around are also down. All is not that rosy.

TSR · 17 Jun 2007, 07:45 (Ref:1939507)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

Where are the more big name sponsors compared to what we had 2 years ago or even five years ago. As for TV audience, way bigger? I don't know about that either. More teams are struggling to fund their teams now than there were a few years ago. Merchandising sales if you believe the word around are also down. All is not that rosy.

Agree 100%, but don't get me started on merchandise, what a BLOODY rip off. $90 for a polo.

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