Newey to improve RB3 by 7 tenths this week

Champions · 7 Mar 2007, 12:47 (Ref:1860553)

Red Bull will be testing a whole new aero package this week at Magny Cours. The old package was badly designed due to incorrect data from the new aero tunnel (which was just too new

). Now, based on computer based simulations, Newey designed new wings, bargeboards and undertray.

http://freshf1.wordpress.com/2007/03...and-undertray/

Sodemo · 7 Mar 2007, 12:52 (Ref:1860557)

What a clever chappy!

Certainly better than my idea of using play-dough to model aerodynamics...

FPV GTHO · 7 Mar 2007, 13:55 (Ref:1860609)

Not much of a new wind tunnel, from what ive read its just a newly commissioned one. Newey's actually on record commenting on its post-war concrete construction as opposed to steel.

Im concerned though as this essentially is RBR's "Melbourne Spec" aero. 7-8 tenths off the launch spec is great, but im sure the other teams have made similar gains. Theyre also claiming its losing rear downforce, which is something i hadnt heard yet. So far ive only heard claims of its poor tyre management and various transmission problems.

senna12 · 7 Mar 2007, 14:22 (Ref:1860628)

You know, if you follow the links in the story you find that the figures Newey is using from the computer simulations may only be an "approximate" solution.
Quite a few teams have now made the mistake of misinterpreting the numbers and data they get from the wind tunnels. With aero now being all important, it looks like the team with the engineers who are best at deciphering the numbers will be successful. Perhaps this is one reason that BMW Sauber have made such gains, as they have Elvin, or Alvin, or whatever that supercomputers name is, and the techs who know what the numbers mean.
I'd also like to mention that Newey also penned the McLaren that never saw a race, I forget which number it was, the 18 or 19 perhaps? I think I might prefer Rory Byrne if I had my choice.

Fletcher · 7 Mar 2007, 17:16 (Ref:1860741)

Magny Cours? That's an odd place for a test. Lap times vary very much depending on the time of day and the ultra-smooth surface means chassis testing isn't of much use as the track requires suspension settings that are very different from other race tracks. If I've understood correctly they'd need either lots of earlier data or frequent reference runs to get something out of it. Ligier never got it to work.

Glen · 8 Mar 2007, 12:44 (Ref:1861409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Magny Cours? That's an odd place for a test.

Magny Cours is often used for straight line testing, to get numbers on downforce and aero efficiency - like windtunnel data but in real-life-form.

I believe they can also quickly change the circuit format to simulate certain types of corner and other conditions.

flor · 7 Mar 2007, 17:25 (Ref:1860747)

i remember being there for a formula 3 test with lap times going up of down by 0.5s depending on how many clouds you had in front of the sun during a lap

Down F0rce · 7 Mar 2007, 17:35 (Ref:1860757)

Thats a pretty significant gain for such a short period of time, hope they can pull it off. I'd be suprised if they were able to make such gains before the European season.

Marbot · 7 Mar 2007, 20:58 (Ref:1860921)

"It is interesting to see if the same new parts will appear on the Toro Rosso, which is also testing this week…"

Indeed.

strider · 7 Mar 2007, 21:29 (Ref:1860968)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

Thats a pretty significant gain for such a short period of time, hope they can pull it off. I'd be suprised if they were able to make such gains before the European season.

Normally I'd agree, but the car seems so far off the pace to date that it may be possible in this case.

I thought the Newey trademark above all was to create a car as an integrated package. If that article is correct, it's not what happened this time. Actually, I heard of someone who used to work at McLaren and now works at Red Bull and according to him the sense of deja vu between the MP4/20 and the RB3 is almost disturbing.

Barberouge · 7 Mar 2007, 21:42 (Ref:1860984)

McLaren, Ferrari and Renault all gained about 0.5s in Bahrain last week, when they changed their launch spec. aero to their 1st race package. 0.7s is not an unreasonable expectation if they have found a problem - wing stall, floor stall or similar. The question is - if they didn't get parts to Bahrain, how will they have race quantities for Australia?

f1manoz · 7 Mar 2007, 20:55 (Ref:1860916)

I suppose Newey does have the technical nous to pull off such a big leap in lap times, but I'll wait and see with this as the new Red Bull has been pathetically slow.

And will all these changes also appear on the Toro Rosso?!?!

djinvicta · 7 Mar 2007, 21:40 (Ref:1860982)

Lets hope they put some talent in the car if its going to be that good...

Trev Campbell · 7 Mar 2007, 22:56 (Ref:1861048)

Is blaming the wind tunnel just the new excuse when you've designed a bad car. Wasn't that the excuse for the 2005 Williams ??? They kept blaming the wrongly calibrated wind tunnel. Funny how the car never really improved !!!! I wouldn't have thought it would take a year to calibrate a wind tunnel

Sodemo · 7 Mar 2007, 23:29 (Ref:1861069)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

Is blaming the wind tunnel just the new excuse when you've designed a bad car. Wasn't that the excuse for the 2005 Williams ??? They kept blaming the wrongly calibrated wind tunnel. Funny how the car never really improved !!!! I wouldn't have thought it would take a year to calibrate a wind tunnel

Indeed, you would have thought that calibrating the wind tunnel correctly would be quite high up on the "things to do" list of an F1 team...

FPV GTHO · 8 Mar 2007, 02:50 (Ref:1861125)

Thats why even when RBR abandoned developement of the RB2, the RB3 didnt get into the wind tunnel until around July last year, which was pretty late by F1 standards. Newey made sure the 2 wind tunnels were both calibrated correctly.

JohnSSC · 8 Mar 2007, 14:02 (Ref:1861478)

I would think that if one wants to test aero improvements, one would want a track that is very smooth so as to eliminate any variable that would prevent establishing the real-world baseline. So, I am thinking Magny-Cours might be the ideal spot for such a test.

Knowlesy · 8 Mar 2007, 17:27 (Ref:1861619)

Yes indeed, that is the theory at least.

It never really worked for Ligier and Prost though!

Marbot · 8 Mar 2007, 19:38 (Ref:1861685)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Yes indeed, that is the theory at least.

It never really worked for Ligier and Prost though!

No it didn't...not even at Magny-Cours!

zac510 · 8 Mar 2007, 19:41 (Ref:1861687)

I think you're reading into it too much. It was probably the only circuit available at short notice.

FPV GTHO · 9 Mar 2007, 06:09 (Ref:1862045)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zac510

I think you're reading into it too much. It was probably the only circuit available at short notice.

Toyota are at Jerez though, which has been used frequently already and would provide a good baseline for the improvements outside of the windtunnel.

If Magny Cours is that signficant for gauging aero-only, that would explain alot, but RBR also need to do alot of work regarding the tyres, so one wonders why they havent tried to chase both. Perhaps different programs will achieve that.

dsg · 9 Mar 2007, 06:13 (Ref:1862047)

They could have sent Toro Rosso to Jerez.

Krazer · 9 Mar 2007, 07:13 (Ref:1862068)

maybe they are tying to nail 1 problem at a time, concentrate all their efforts.

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