What car, what car.......*sigh*

[Sharky]

Hi all.

Well, it's been quite a while (probably most people here don't even know that I existed). Anyhow, many things have changed since the last time I was here (including getting married, having lived in NL for a bit over a year and now living in the UK for a bit over two years).

Anyhow, I have been pondering the purchase of an old car and who better to advise than the people at the forum, right?

Anyhow, here's the situation. Living in London I am looking for a weekend car to drive around the UK and the EU, hence mostly for motorway and road use (little if any urban). Main priority is reliability. I just want a hassle-free ownership.

Overall it's all about having the least running cost possible (including fuel) in a relatively comfortable car (Golf size or bigger).

Budget is max £5,000 (would go as far as £6,000 if absolutely necessary) and ideally not looking for something with more than 80,000 miles (if diesel, not sure about equivalence with petrol).

Thus far I've been looking at two main options: VW Golf mk 5 1.9TDi and Ford Focus 1.6TDCi (the 110bhp one). However, I'm not married to either of the two. Would have a preference for anything that is either Japanese or German (at least german-built). Have also looked into somewhat larger cars such as the Audi A4 2.0 (petrol) and even Mazda 6 but fuel consumption and insurance costs are an issue.

Oh, and BTW, the purchase will likely happen in the second half of the year. Have to save up the money and I still have the small issue of not having a UK license (yet).....but that's a whole different story and I hope to have it resolved in a couple of months.

[Tim Falce]

One other consideration is insurance. Will you have to take a test or are you exchanging a foreign licence for a GB one? Insurance for cars here is very expensive and you will bit hit depending on your age, experience and the type of car you buy.

[Adam43]

Check you need a diesel for the good fuel consumption. It is an easy calculation to get a decent feel. If you are not doing many miles then the saving, which could be a few hundred pounds even in this price range, pays for a lot of the difference at the pump.
Some diesels don't like short journeys so servicing may become more expensive.

Of course you may just use that saving on a better car.

Overall I think a Focus or a Golf are a good choice.
We have an old Focus that I keep suggesting we replace, but Mrs43 points out, righty, that there is really no need. It is a very good car.

[nicanary]

I've lots of experience of the VAG 1.9 Tdi - they're absolutely bullet-proof motors and can take any amount of mileage. They do get a bit noisy with age, but the Ford unit is noisy from new IMHO.

Thought about a Skoda Octavia? If you can find one that hasn't been used as a taxi, they're well-built and probably better value than the Golf. Lots of car for the money if you're not a badge-snob.

[garcon]

The VAG 1.9 TDI is an awful lot better than the 2.0 TDI that replaced it.

A nice spec Octavia is a good shout.

Avoid the Focus 1.6TDI - it's gutless and not as economical as the figures suggest. On longer trips you have to thrash the wotsits off it to get anywhere, thus sacrificing economy.

[Sharky]

Thanks a lot for the replies.

Re my situation: Unfortunately have to do the test and get a new license (after 16 years of driving and 10 of actually owning a car and commuting every single day). My license (Colombian) is no good here. Taking lessons again just to make sure that I pass the test and get used to driving on the wrong side of the road and such :P

Unfortunately this will mean that as far as insurers are concerned, I will be a new driver (ditto for car rental companies, hence the reason why probably the only option to drive in the UK will be to buy a car, at least for the first year). I have gone into these comparison sites (comparethemarket.com, confused.com, etc.) and they've quoted me (32 year old married man, living in London, working as a consultant, to use the car on weekends and leaving it on a garage) around £1,200-£1,600 paying the year up front for comprehensive cover. I assume that if that's the quote I get, that's the price I'll pay and there won't be any surprises afterwards....

As for the car, I had indeed heard these comments about the VW 1.9 TDi engine (in all its incarnations) hence why I was looking at that one. Actually, now that you mention it, I was in Budapest a month ago and we took a Taxi (VW Jetta I think with a TDI) with 450.000km on the clock. Quite impressive. The Octavia does sound like a sensible option although, should I expect differences in MPG because of the size?

Re. Adam43, I have also given some thought about the justification behind the diesel vs the petrol hence why I was also considering a Mk 5 VW Golf 1.6FSI, but then again, I heard the stories of diesels being more reliable than petrol engines.

[Starfish Primer]

My father has a 98 Seat Toledo with a 1.9 90Hp TDI, it has 300.000 Km and never had a problem. Fuel mileage is good and power is enough for a daily use.

[Tim Falce]

Sharky, for insurance as a new driver try Admiral or Elephant, they are the same company. I wouldn't bother with comparison sites as you'll now be inundated with spam for ever more. Also see if you can add a second driver and third driver with clean licences as this will bring the price down an amazing amount. Direct line can be reasonable as well but it depends when you go for the quote.
Golf or Polo diesels are economical as are Clio DCis but the Clio in my opinion will be tiring to drive if you do a lot of motorway driving.
I've heard horror stories about Focus diesels. I'd also consider a Skoda as they are a VAG car and I've never seen one in my uncle's workshop so unless they disintegrate on the road then it might be a good sign.

[Sharky]

Ah. Good point. The quotes I got were indeed from Admiral and Elephant but I guess that going directly would probably be best. I'm afraid I can't put anyone else on the insurance, though (wife doesn't even drive). However, can I put some random person? Well, not random but a friend or something of the sort.

I just found something a bit odd. Was doing a search autotrader for 1.9TDi VWAG cars, less than 7 years old with less than 80,000 miles and it turns out that the cheapest ones are VW Passats (cheaper than most Octavias actually!). Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing.....I will most certainly feel like an old guy driving around in one of those but that's not necessarily a deal breaker....and could prove useful for the odd trip to Ikea....

[GORDON STREETER]

Just a quickie as regards fuel consumption diesels v petrol, some petrol cars can do very good MPG if not thrashed and are comparable to diesels when you factor in the price between both fuels.
As for diesels try to get one without a DPF if you do a fair bit of urban driving.
Also whatever you buy remember the more fully loaded a vehicle is the more will go wrong, meaning problems/expense.
Factor in servicing cost/timing belts and tyres especially on bling vehicles !
I have all sorts of cars on my books and find that some like small to medium Toyota's are boringly reliable but of course you will always get a rogue car whatever you buy !

[bella]

hey sharky!

you're totally right to be getting a diesel if you're going to be doing time on the continent. diesel is about 15-20 euro cents a litre cheaper over there so no matter how close a petrol car can get to the mpg, it's going to be smarter to buy a diesel.

the only problem with the bigger cars like the passats might be that the road tax is very silly, so have a quick look at that. gordon's right about the timing belt costs - that needs to be done properly and on time too.

don't bother with renaults, the driving position in any and all of them is considered torture by the european court of human rights

with diesels, you don't get a lot of car for your money. the petrol version will be cheaper (and with more toys), but if you're driving in europe the extra initial spend is worth it.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Sharky

Re. Adam43, I have also given some thought about the justification behind the diesel vs the petrol hence why I was also considering a Mk 5 VW Golf 1.6FSI, but then again, I heard the stories of diesels being more reliable than petrol engines.

On the reliability front I wouldn't worry about a diesel. Although in the unlikely event a turbo goes it is expensive.
It is mainly just this I'd worry about:

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

As for diesels try to get one without a DPF if you do a fair bit of urban driving.

For this alone I don't consider a diesel for our local runabout (the Focus).

Originally Posted by bella

don't bother with renaults, the driving position in any and all of them is considered torture by the european court of human rights

and it will break in many many different ways.

[Sharky]

Thanks for the replies guys.
Bella, thanks, good point. A lot of traveling will certainly be done in the continent so there should be some additional savings there. Not sure how much of the driving bill be done there though, but a fair amount for sure.

Good point about the DFP also. I hadn't thought about it to be honest!

Gordon. I agree with the Japanese cars and that's why they would be an option. My second car was a Mazda 323F, and although it was probably one of the dullest cars on the road, it got the job done and never skipped a beat. It was a bit dull to spend Sunday mornings hoping to find something to mend and finding out that all I could do was to top up the washer fluid and check the tire pressure.

I am indeed mindful of the timing belt issue but I guess that as long as they have a FSR which shows that it was done when recommended it should be OK. The again, I've read the stories of forged service history, winding down of odometers, etc. Actually, are there any recommendations for buying used cars in the UK? I'm guessing that used car salespeople in the UK probably don't have a better reputation than anywhere else, but are there any specific recommendations other than take the car for a drive, do the HPI checks, etc.? For instance, would it be preferable to buy from a franchised dealer or just get it off a private seller?

Many thanks again!

[MGDavid]

you can check mileage by doing an online MOT history check:
https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history-vehicle
as long as you have the V5C document number; so either ask to see the V5, make a note of the number and go away and check it - or ask the seller to check it with you on the spot. The records go back to 2005.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Sharky

are there any recommendations for buying used cars in the UK? I'm guessing that used car salespeople in the UK probably don't have a better reputation than anywhere else, but are there any specific recommendations other than take the car for a drive, do the HPI checks, etc.? For instance, would it be preferable to buy from a franchised dealer or just get it off a private seller?

Many thanks again!

I'd be very wary of buying private or from an unknown dealer after reading so many horror stories about people buying cloned or stolen cars, at least with a dealer you have a bit of comeback even if you are paying more in the first place.

[GORDON STREETER]

As for recorded mileage new MOTs should show previous readings as well now but make sure that the MOT that you get is genuine and not a photocopied one with things omitted or altered, this happens all the time now that they are printed on a simple A4 piece of paper

[GORDON STREETER]

If you are buying a "private" car out of the local rag make sure it is and not some "lock up" car cowboy dealer.
Phone up and say "is the car still for sale" if they reply "er which one" you know the answer !!!!
I'm afraid it is a minefield out there, a lot of vehicles are traded in because of expensive problems that may only show up after a while and although some traders will offer a warranty and if you read it properly that to can be a "minefield"

[Sharky]

Thanks again. Good point about the MOTs and tracking mileage as well as going to a dealer.

Gordon, I have indeed seen that a few dealers offer 3 month, six month or even a year P&L warranties, but does this mean that the fine print could make them actually useless?

What about getting something like warrantydirect.co.uk? I think for the cars I've been looking at it would be something like £400 a year and it could give some piece of mind that they'll fix whatever is rotten with the car (or so I would think...)

[GORDON STREETER]

Obviously a warranty is better than nothing but a lot of them are written very cleverly so it works in their favour, after all it's only an insurance policy and very few firms ever loose and go out of business.
Most that I have had dealings with wont cover "wear and tear"(clutches/brakes) etc and will only pay what they think, consequently a lot of garages won't entertain repairs on some warranties and you might have to take it to only "approved by them" mechanics.
I personally wont have anything to do with them (repair wise) as I have had problems in the past and lost money.

[bella]

i had a year's audi warranty on my current car. very handy, they've already fixed a dodgy parking sensor, and they're shortly going to get it to have a look at an occasionally not-locking boot catch and a loose shutter in the headlight before it expires. it's through the dealership, and to be honest i was only using it as a fallback in case i had invested in a dodgy car. it doesn't cover "consumables" - so, thing that would expire within the cars lifetime like clutches, turbos, brakes, suspension, lightbulbs, etc.

i wouldn't get a warranty from a third party - they don't really have any responsibility for what you've bought. manufacturer warranties are a little easier to hold to account.

[Starfish Primer]

The wear and tear, is always interesting ask how much life is still in the timing belt.

[Cryos]

For more modern VW's, Skoda's, Audi's and Seats do look for a few things.

High mileage on the car doesn't necessarily mean it may be a lemon, it is totally dependant on the cars history. If its been serviced by a main dealer you can generally ask for some service history (like any technician notes)

Example:
2013-01-24_14h58_36.png

This is some of the most common issues with higher millage VAG Group cars, shuddering in the clutch is generally a mass fly wheel (€600 from VW, ive had the shudder from about 135,000 - 240,000km), coolant bottle contaminated is another one, its a cheap part from VW but causes loss of coolant should it be contaminated or ineffective. Other general wear items on diesels would be glowplugs.

Tips though if you are testing a VW and perhaps the price seems a little too good.

- Check Coolant Bottle colour, if its a darkish colour it may be due replacing; This effects the pressure in the coolant system and will cause an airlock, drive the car and get it warm and whack the heating on as hot as it will go, if you notice any "cooling" effect after a few minutes you may have a failing coolant bottle.

- Get someone else to sit in the car and lock the wheels in one direction and ask them to slowly let out the clutch, if the wheels start "shuddering" and/or the clutch feels like its shuddering a mass flywheel is almost due. In addition to this leave the car idle and listen for any odd noises which may be gearbox related, alot of the time you can hear a slight rattle indicative of a mass flywheel, its better to do this with the bonnet closed.

- For the 1.9TDI (5 Speed) engines start off in first and at about 2500 rpm change to third, if you get more consistant power in third it means the airflow and turbo is working as expected, if you get nothing but then get a sudden belt of power (and i mean a belt of power) it can be an indication of a faulty airflow meter/sensor.

These are very specific checks for the above engine, it is good for most of the VAG group from 2002-2012.

For the newer 1.6/2.0 TDI engines, at the first sign of a rattle divorce it.

[Sharky]

Wow! Thanks Cryos!

[joeb]

Had to dig up an old thread for this. I have been looking for a truck for one of my coworkers to use. They needed 4-wheel drive, 4-doors, V8, and has to have less than the 280,000 miles his current truck has on it!

Anyways, used vehicle prices have been quite high in the US for the past few years and I hadn't thought much of it until I had to purchase something. One of the vehicles with a crazy high resale rate is the Toyota Tacoma (Hilux).

In the attached image, the Toyota was $35,395 new and the Merc was $44,900. Gosh that is not a lot of depreciation!

[broadrun96]

GLC is overpricd by 15k, the Toyota by 10k