[Rules] Grosjean & the Stewards

[Jimmy Magnusson]

So you're telling me that in that race Grosjean esentially deserved two drive through penalties? By now he's just getting picked on.

Disgraceful.

[Trev Campbell]

I certainly did feel sorry for him getting done for passing Massa 'off the track' at turn 4, it was a very ballsy move. But the thing that gets me, is during a normal lap you are able to put all 4 wheels over the line without penalty (although you get a speed advantage) but you do the same thing and get past someone you get a penalty. either everyone has to adhere to the track limits all the time or its a freefor all.

[PepsiVodka]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

So you're telling me that in that race Grosjean esentially deserved two drive through penalties? By now he's just getting picked on.

Disgraceful.

Well for the Button incident it could of been justified due to the fact that he made contact with him while going wheel to wheel and then completely forgot to brake and cut the chicane which is considered 'gaining time off track'.

That's the only one he might of deserved

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by PepsiVodka

Well for the Button incident it could of been justified due to the fact that he made contact with him while going wheel to wheel and then completely forgot to brake and cut the chicane which is considered 'gaining time off track'.

That's the only one he might of deserved

People gotta race. I ain't saying it was all soft pillows but funny how the hammer always swings a certain way.

[Razzzor]

Well whether he deserved one or two penalties, the second one didn't affect his finishing position anyway. It was a completely pointless penalty, but probably deserved.

The one he didn't deserve was with Massa, that was very harsh I think. He had no choice but to go off track because he was like an inch away from Massa. McNish was too tough there.

[F1Pete]

McNish is still bitter when dropped as an F1 driver.

[Nicholosophy]

The Button incident was 50/50 on whether he deserved a penalty and with his history he was likely to get one.

The Massa incident was fine. We've seen others do similar without penalty before.

[Armco Bender]

Grosjean is a racer,....Button squeals like a girl everytime he sees someone in his mirror.

[andy666]

Should he have been made to give the place back to Massa ? Yes it was a brave move but at the end of the day he overtook with all 4 off the track . Was it Germany last year when Vettel got 20 seconds for passing Button for the same thing dropping him down to 5th ? Although it did take the stewards 2 hours to make the decision !

[littleman]

I like Grosjean. The main thing is he's genuinely proper fast, rattles other drivers and is seriously brave.

OK, he's still a little rough around the edges but that'll come. The Massa penalty was really harsh, the Button incident was just symptomatic of modern "over policed" F1.

And McNish called it, the most aggressive Sports Car bully on the track!

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Grosjean is a racer,....Button squeals like a girl everytime he sees someone in his mirror.

Speaking of squealing like a girl, who heard Vettels message when Kimi didn't just move over and let him past? I actually laughed out loud.

With reference to Grosjean, it almost seemed like they were making up for missing the penalty from when he passed Button, so I have no problem with it. Pass on Massa was awesome though! More of that please.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Speaking of squealing like a girl, who heard Vettels message when Kimi didn't just move over and let him past? I actually laughed out loud.

Every driver tries that on, we are forever hearing teams, esp McLaren and Ferrari saying "yes we saw that, we are talking to Charlie".

With regards to Romain. Massa said he had no problem with the move but I do wonder if some drivers, when seeing Grosjean behind them, get their elbows out a bit more as they know that its Grosjean likely to be looked at.

[Ingsy]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Speaking of squealing like a girl, who heard Vettels message when Kimi didn't just move over and let him past? I actually laughed out loud.

That made me laugh too - especially as Kimi left Vettel far more room than Vettel left Grosjean on the run down to turn 1 at the start of the race.

I think Grosjean drove a great race to be honest. Wheel to wheel at the start, and he didn't put a foot wrong (who'd have thought that was possible last year, or even earlier this year) plus a fantastic move on Massa.

A bit clumsy with Button, to be honest, but not a major problem in my eyes.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Speaking of squealing like a girl, who heard Vettels message when Kimi didn't just move over and let him past? I actually laughed out loud.

Me too. Great fun really bearing in mind that some people have the pair slated as potential team mates......

[henners88]

I didn't think Romain deserved a penalty at all for either incident. Unfortunately he's turned into a bit of a marked man due to many of his previous incidents and this is affecting the way in which any such racing incident is viewed. Similar to Hamilton during 2011 where he made mistakes but was also punished for mild errors. Fair play to Massa for suggesting he thought the penalty was totally unfair on Romain too.

I think Romain has potential to be a very good and exciting driver in the sport. We are in danger of suppressing his talents because he is too scared to make a move or race. I don't want to see a driver pulling out of moves or be intimidated by other drivers because he thinks he'll get a penalty. The stewards need to evaluate their approach and start introducing some consistency IMO. Its a big as I know.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Speaking of squealing like a girl, who heard Vettels message when Kimi didn't just move over and let him past? I actually laughed out loud.

It really was a bizarre moment...

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

It really was a bizarre moment...

lol, it's not bizarre, just Vettel letting Kimi know where he'll stand if he joins RBR next season

[bella]

i felt really sorry for grosjean. they clearly thought his moves on button and massa were borderline and went looking for something to give him a penalty for.

button needs to mtfu - that was a racing incident. if you're not hard enough to defend properly or you're blatently going to get passed then it's kind of rude to go squealing about the other guy going through anyway. especially when you've positioned yourself on the track to cause maximum inconvenience.

[VIVA GT]

I agree that Grosjean drove a good & exciting race. The problem is (and the point is) that he couldn't have made either move stick at a track like Monaco where he would have ended up in the barriers.
Surely that's what the 'four wheels off' rule is all about?

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I agree that Grosjean drove a good & exciting race. The problem is (and the point is) that he couldn't have made either move stick at a track like Monaco where he would have ended up in the barriers.
Surely that's what the 'four wheels off' rule is all about?

That argument is pointless though. If he was at Monaco, would he have even tried that sort of move (and yes, I remember what he did into Tabac during the 2009 GP2 race).

As Bella said, the Button incident was a racing incident. **** happens when you're racing. F1 has become the litigious society where everything is black and white, there is always someone to blame. Penalties never used to be awarded for such a thing. It was also, six of one, half dozen of the other. Button could have backed out, Grosjean could have given him more space.

Unfortunately, Grosjean's reputation precedes him.

[bella]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

As Bella said, the Button incident was a racing incident. **** happens when you're racing. F1 has become the litigious society where everything is black and white, there is always someone to blame. Penalties never used to be awarded for such a thing. It was also, six of one, half dozen of the other. Button could have backed out, Grosjean could have given him more space.

i think the button thing strayed into the "legislating for the consequences not the action" "why do we issue penalties in the first place" existential territory as well. which is a fair pointer that the flippin' thing was wrong.

totally agree about the blame and black and white comment too. there is no common sense being applied, and i still think transparency is an issue.

however, the way they worked through and explained the logic behind not issuing a penalty for grosjeans wonky floor in qualifying was absolutely superb. now they just need to apply that common sense and logic to driving penalties. if they did, there wouldn't be the concerns with consistency.

[bella]

only if it's enforced consistently and not as an excuse to penalise someone.

[jsTrecu]

Both penalties were arguable, and I liked a lot how he drove and the overtake on Massa was great. My favourite of the race.
But with his history it's surprising he got punished, maybe not totally fair, but I think until he manage to do a dozen of races or so without causing any accident this trend will continue.


As for Vettel it was funny yeah, don't know what he was thinking...
Maybe he tried to emulate what Fernando "you always have to give space (to me)" Alonso did to him in Monza.

[pauln]

Off-track is off-track and it's against the rules.

Surely the answer is for stewards to apply consistently by giving penalties to all offenders, not by letting Grosjean off because they've let others off.

A case here for at least one member of the stewards to be a permanent appointment to ensure consistency?

[steve_r]

He did not deserve one for his excellent pass on Massa.

His move on Button was a typical clumsy Grosjean move. He had the overtake done, yet for some bizarre reason, instead of breaking and turning into the corner and making the move stick, he ran Button off the road, and then cut the chicane. It wasn't the worst move in the history of F1, but it's no surprise to see him penalised for it. It's almost like he no awareness of what is happening around him - something that Coulthard has alluded to in commentary a number of times.