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25 May 2008, 17:10 (Ref:2211579) | #1 | |
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Flagging Question
Having watched the F1 Grand Prix and GP2 Sprint Race from Monaco, I just want to clarify the procedure for resuming a race following a Safety Car period.
I had thought that once the Safety Car returns to the pitlane, the starter will display the green flag and each subsequent flag-post will do the same. In other words, the green flag will go in one direction around the circuit, and the drivers will not see a one until they have reached the start/finish line. However, in Monaco I noticed that the drivers passed at least three green flags before they crossed the start/finish line. |
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25 May 2008, 19:26 (Ref:2211657) | #2 | ||
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This is normal........don't ask me why but it is!
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25 May 2008, 19:38 (Ref:2211664) | #3 | ||
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That seems to be this year's FIA way - again simplifying things for those that have no tradition of F1 (Singapore, I'm looking at you) - one radio call - "green flag all points"
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Alasdair |
25 May 2008, 20:17 (Ref:2211688) | #4 | |||
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25 May 2008, 20:49 (Ref:2211709) | #5 | |||
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27 May 2008, 11:26 (Ref:2212919) | #6 | |||
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For Safety Car we get a call for "all points SC" and display our yellows and SC boards. Once incident is cleared we get a call for "all points green" just as the SC enters the pit entrance. Seems to work OK. The drivers should know what's going on anyway from their pit-to-car radios |
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26 May 2008, 10:23 (Ref:2212048) | #7 | ||
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If yellows were held out prior to the start line until the last car passes, the front runners would have almost caught up the tail enders before they passed the start line, so all cars should receive the green at the same time to resume racing speed, but they are not allowed to overtake until they have passed the start line. Post chiefs are to be observant!
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26 May 2008, 10:48 (Ref:2212061) | #8 | ||
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Yup, green flag at all points once the starter has gone green. No passing until you have passed the control line.
Green to stay out for one complete lap....in fact, keep waving it until you see the leader coming around a second time. Just in case a back marker has not seen it yet. We've been doing it like this for a few years now. However, I seem to remember being told to bring the flag in after half a lap after a restart at the AGP......The comment was passed down the line.... "We think the drivers know what's going on now." |
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26 May 2008, 15:44 (Ref:2212301) | #9 | ||
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AG, that is correct you need to be on a radio or, preferably, a party hardline for "Green flag all points" to work properly. And that is way the FIA want the flags.
We (North American tracks) did muck around with posts removing the SC yellow as soon as the safety car got to Pit In but the distance from PI to Start varies from track to track and some drivers saw that as an opportunity to pass before the green was actually given at start. |
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26 May 2008, 18:01 (Ref:2212395) | #10 | ||
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I remember having a problem at Oulton Park a few years back whilst flagging at Deer Leap (last point before the startline). There was a huge debate as to whether or not we should still be showing yellow/SC board when the green was out on the startline. I believe instructions have since been issued!
Also, at Donington, we had a problem where single seaters coming through the chicane to be confronted by the yellow/SC on the startline had a huge accident because of suddenly slowing down. I think that was rectified by posts 38 and 39 showing the yellow/SC as advance warning. To my mind, the biggest problem is that each organiser seems to want to do things "their own way". I do think things have got better over the years but it isn't that long ago that we had 3 or 4 different safety car instructions at a single meeting!!!! And this included what to do with the green. I reckon it can be SO simple: waved yellow when the train is in your sector; stationary yellow if a car is "catching up" the train (the fact it ain't waving is his indicator that he has a ways to go); green once the safety car has gone in. And to prevent possible startline incidents, at least the first post (or maybe two) prior to the startline shows yellow/SC or green before the cars actually get to the startline, thus giving them advance warning (but not allowing them to pass in the case of the green). But then again, I consider myself a sensible sort of soul who doesn't work for the FIA............................ |
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26 May 2008, 20:32 (Ref:2212513) | #11 | ||
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Spot on Shelagh!
At Thruxton BTCC, last two posts were warned that they might be asked to put yellow and SC board out (via radio to Observer) if the incident was close to the start line. When we did the Qatar GP Masters, we were told that the green goes out on all posts at the same time, and one of the drivers was later quoted as saying he was confused by seeing greens before the start line. Thing is, I don't see the point in putting green out on all posts. If a driver doesn't realise that it's gone green and the car in front is now 100 yards away travelling at racing speed, he shouldn't be racing! Also, I thought the greens being waved in Monaco were likely to distract the drivers as the flaggies were holding them well over the barrier, in their faces. |
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27 May 2008, 10:11 (Ref:2212871) | #12 | ||
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FCG
Certainly looked like someone called "Full Course Green" to me...
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27 May 2008, 19:04 (Ref:2213340) | #13 | |||
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27 May 2008, 16:15 (Ref:2213197) | #14 | ||
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Not to criticise but sod it I will. I noticed a random yellow waved at the leaders and a green and a yellow waved on the same post (very small sector for no overtaking I guess). but most impressively a brave marshal who had an F1 car come in to his point backwards into the tyres where he was stood and camly picked up the yellow and waved it. big balls or mad, not sure (also theoretically he was passed the incident so should have been a green but I would probably without thinking waved a yellow too)
back to the question though. IMHO I think the full course green if you have the comms is the way to go. For the same reasons as above. The main one being the leaders catching the back markers before they cross the line. |
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28 May 2008, 09:32 (Ref:2213753) | #15 | |||
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Gripes
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The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!! |
27 May 2008, 19:43 (Ref:2213381) | #16 | ||
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become a hooker witha penchant for Nazi's...............
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i'm easy to spot, i wear bright orange and at full speed have the turning circle of a small tanker |
28 May 2008, 08:21 (Ref:2213697) | #17 | |||
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Gosh, you English do good stuff apart from waving flags. |
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30 May 2008, 09:47 (Ref:2215192) | #18 | |||
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28 May 2008, 11:50 (Ref:2213849) | #19 | |
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Paul, F1 works on FIA rules while we work on either MSA or MI standard at Kirky and Mondello. Since we don't have an SC at Kirky it's never come up there.
At Mondello, we have always put out the green around the circuit from start/finish onward so that posts prior to the start/finish will put the green out only after they see it on their preceding post. I went to have a look at the 2008 rules just to check - and got a bit of a shock! For a while, it looked like there weren't any at all!!!! But Grant managed to rummage around and they turned up in Appendix 40! Ok MI rules 16.13.2. All flag posts will withdraw their yellow flag and SC board, in race direction rotation and replace them with a stationary green flag for one lap. |
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28 May 2008, 19:27 (Ref:2214139) | #20 | ||||
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From the FIA F1 Sporting Regulations;
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So yes there may be a green flag waving, but no overtaking until you cross the line. Al. Last edited by Alan Green; 28 May 2008 at 19:35. |
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2 Jun 2008, 19:15 (Ref:2218062) | #21 | ||
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Another Question on Flagging......
International Flagging is always a waved flag. When it comes to the yellow in your sector,does the preceding post show a flag or is it purely 1 flag for that sector only ? Thanks Gary |
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2 Jun 2008, 19:41 (Ref:2218086) | #22 | |||
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Can of worms time again.. It is only the one post.. HOWEVER there are some posts that would/should show a flag before.. I.E. Bridge and bridge link at Silverstone.. there are also occasions when race control will ask you to upgrade to a double yellow or the previous post to show a yellow.. Hope that helps. Roy |
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2 Jun 2008, 19:58 (Ref:2218103) | #23 | ||
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Cheers Roys.
waved flags unless requested That was the other thing, Radio`s for flaggies. i take it race control will tell you when they want a flag out ? not been out on silverstone circuit,so just getting prepared |
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3 Jun 2008, 08:39 (Ref:2218424) | #24 | ||
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Do the FIA guidelines of showing a waved yellow at the sector of the incident and a waved green to give the all clear not make it more dangerous for all involved? with a stationary yellow in the sector before the incident does this not give drivers more warning of impending danger and allow for them to have that little bit longer to think about avoiding action?
It seems odd that at the moment with club flag rules you show a stationary yellow on the entrance to a blind corner to then see a waved yellow over the brow and be aware that something is wrong. With the FIA setup they come over the blind corner to see a waved yellow and have no time to judge the safest course of action before being in amongst an incident and possibly bodies? Am I getting it wrong or does that not seem somewhat more dangerous for the sake of flaggies needing to look both ways ( or not if 2 flaggies on a post ? ) |
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3 Jun 2008, 13:01 (Ref:2218696) | #25 | |||
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As for flaggies on radios. For yellow flags race control will usually(?) only use radio to ask for a flag to be upgraded (ie. from single waved yellow to double waved yellow) or maybe to withdraw a waved yellow flag. For blue flags, in this country, I haven't come across a please blue car X now instruction. At the F1 GP we just get warning messages telling us who is about to be lapped. It is still our call when the blue flag is waved. |
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