The night racing fad.

[Knowlesy]

I haven't been on in a while, so forgive me if this has been done.

The Singapore night race, then. I loved it! Brilliant! After the misery of the post-Belgian GP shambles, F1 needed a shot in the arm like no other time and boy has it got it since. First Monza with its surprise winner and, for me, the icing on the cake - a terrific new event on the streets of Singapore.

The problem I have though is that Bernie and others seem to want to make night racing a more regular thing on a number of circuits in that same sort of timezone.

I hate to be miserable, but I hate the idea of this. What made Singapore so exciting, so fresh was it was A) unique to F1 and B) the perfect setting for a night race.

The addition of a Suzuka/Malaysia night race or whatever is planned nowadays fills me with dread. It just wouldn't be the same in terms of spectacle (no fancy buildings or streets at Suzuka, although nice ferris wheel admittedly!) and would also detract from the uniqueness of the Singapore event. It would get to the point of "oh, here's another night race".

Please Bernie, no more. Keep it as it is I beg of you! It really isn't that hard for the fans to get out of bed early in the morning, provided F1 is kept as a decent spectacle.

[JeremySmith]

Malaysia has just said no to a night race..What they are prepared to do is push the race back by two hours..

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2008/...to-night-race/

[johntt]

IMO there should be no more than 2 night races per year.

Singapore should be one, and if I was to suggest another it would be moving the Aussie GP back to Adelaide and running that at night.

[mjolnir]

it'd like overtaking, isnt it? too much and it just takes the shine off it...

[duke_toaster]

I agree with two night races limit. Singapore plus a street race in Europe. As good as the thought of cars racing past landmarks in London is at night, I doubt it would happen. What about Potsdam (for Berlin) or Paris?

[Satorian]

A Paris night race would be brilliant. As long as the rowdy young ones don't turn the F1 cars over and set them on fire.

[f1manoz]

IMO Singapore will be the only night race for the time being, but all the far flung races in Asia will probably be forced to move back their starting times.

[Dutton]

I wouldn't mind seeing Monaco at night...that'd be kinda neat. A European night-race won't happen though, since putting the timezones out of kilter in this fashion would defeat what Bernie is trying to achieve.

For sure, if we are to get anymore night-races, then I think only really street-tracks will work. I can't really see how it can function properly on road circuits. This is why Bernie's apparent appetite for night-races concerns me. I personally like a good street-track, but there are not many of them to go about (far too many are a bit pants). I fear that we may be about to get a few more crammed on the schedule in the name of night-races, and more than a couple will likely be able to have the attribute of "pants" applied to them. I like things like Monaco, and Singapore, since both are interesting tracks, but I also like these races because they are not the norm.

To have a calander half-full of street venues, well, that defeats the point IMO. I think, too, a street-dominated schedule is not a productive approach (the same is true for a schedule with a high proportion of street, if not dominated as such). I believe no road-racing series should be street-free, but I think letting the schedule get overfull of them is a bit of a folly (I believe this has been shown in practice).

[Marbot]

Since the majority of the people that can actually be bothered to watch F1 are mostly based in Europe it's hardly surprising that FOM want as many night races in Asia as possible.

Night races in Europe would clash with programmes that the TV companies consider to be more important viewing for that time of day.

[Dutton]

Yup. TV viewership is the only reason night-racing has appeared, and is the only reason that will cause an expansion (and will dictate where it happens). I think we all know that.

[Tehillim]

I can't see Suzuka ever becoming a night race and I'd prefer it were kept on the calendar than lose it because of the race time in Europe. I liked Singapore, but actually I prefer the races at funny times, it means I can set the video and watch them over breakfast, leaving more of the weekend free.

[tristancliffe]

What's the point though. It was lit up like daytime, and other than a lot of flood lights it was almost impossible to tell it was night time. It didn't improve the racing, or add to the spectacle. It is 100% purely to get more money into Bernie's pockets by having a big audience and a big hosting fee.

I'm not against night races, but I don't see anything whatsoever special about them. If you want a night race, then leave it dark and may the best team (who can design, fit and run the least problematic lights) win.

[Tehillim]

Interesting article here about Abu Dhabi:-

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71050

Good idea for them to consider a night race, especially if the circuit is likely to be bland - hopefully Bahrain will take the hint!

[b1ackcr0w]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

What made Singapore so exciting, so fresh was it was A) unique to F1 and B) the perfect setting for a night race.

A) er Le Mans?
B) I think they were very lucky it didn't rain. If it had, I think we would be screaming in concert with the rest of the sport, why did they take such a stupid risk?

In general though I agree. It's a gimmick, and like any gimmick, it works, but will only work while there is a novelty value to it.

[Mystery]

This thread has reminded me about the distasteful business of money in F1.

The powers that be want more money for F1 races so is prepared to hawk them off to the highest bidder irrespective of levels of corruption or human rights abuses in the country.

Those same powers that be that complain that these far flung places aren't near enough Europe to make the races convenient viewing.

Well boo hoo Bernie - bring the races back to Europe if you don't like it....

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Mystery

The powers that be want more money for F1 races so is prepared to hawk them off to the highest bidder irrespective of levels of corruption or human rights abuses in the country.

I hardly think you can have a go at F1/Bernie for having races in countries with questionable human rights records. Is the suggestion that the population of a country don't deserve the right to have something in their country which they might enjoy because of the actions of their government? I think that is a tab unreasonable. If anything, the more high-profile events there are in the place, then the more attention is given to the place by the rest of the world; this, in turn, increases the degree to which these other places will think about the negative things occuring.

Anyway, apart from all this, I just don't see the great harm that having a race in such a place achieves. So said government, or whatever, gives some of its cash to Bernie: this isn't really any different to the other chosen causes that they give their money to, but in this instance it can actually provide something tangible that some people might actually get some enjoyment out of.

If the standard of a government is to start being taken into consideration, where is the line drawn? Italy has a fair old corruption problem, whereas the likes of Australia and the US have legitimised corruption. Argentina doesn't have a race anymore, but in times in the past it has held races whilst its governments have been doing shocking things. Or is corruption an example of an acceptable misbehaviour, given it only "indirectly" hammers the population's quality of life?

Do we also start to consider the potential abuses that a country's legislation could allow, even if it is, by and large, not actually used in that way (although certainly is to an extent)? If I think about the "anti-terrorism" legislation that the likes of the US and the UK has, for instance, well, it is not exactly the most friendly stuff when it coems to peoples' rights, the previously accepted rule of law, and so on.

Where does it end? The right to determine what is acceptable lies with whom?

[Mystery]

All good points Dutton and I respect what you say but....

Originally Posted by Dutton

Where does it end? The right to determine what is acceptable lies with whom?

With me. I find it unacceptable. If you're ok with it then that's your right.

I'm looking forward to hearing how the Olympics have dramatically changed the lives of the people of China for example......but not holding my breath.


Anyway, my reference to funding by dodgy governments has deflected the point of my post.

The main point I was trying to make is that Bernie's given far flung countries the races and then whinged about the times they're having the races at precisely because of where they are whilst the countries these races used to be at, by and large, were in "better" time zones. And why has it changed - to line someones pockets. Nice that.

[Mystery]

<wishes he hadn't popped in the little comment about certain countries now>

Anyway as we were saying.....

Originally Posted by Mystery

The main point I was trying to make is that Bernie's given far flung countries the races and then whinged about the times they're having the races at precisely because of where they are whilst the countries these races used to be at, by and large, were in "better" time zones.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Greed is the central problem in F1, and has been for several years. Some things actually were much better in the old days.

[chillibowl]

imo using sport to change the world does not really work. i cant think of a single country turning its fortunes around and using that global stage to really improve the lives of its citizens in any area other than the very short term (and usually only in terms of very short term economic benefits). one of the more notable failures would include the Rumble in the Jungle fought in Zaire in 1974.

in fairness some of the larger pan-national events have created greater stability for a region like the 2002 world cup? held in Korea and Japan, but that is a different type of event than a one shot race once a year. and these 2 countries are not the typical 3 world or repressive regime type countries we are talking about here.

2010 world cup in South Africa might be a better example of how sports can improve a country's fortunes but we will see.

anyways back on topic, as for the time zones and greed...if BE wants to make more money he should try putting the races on at a time that suits the N.American audience. they sell more cars here so why not build up my market/time zone? me, i hate waking up at 6:30am every other sunday (i mean if i went to church/temple i would have a real dilemma on my hands...do i worship a powerful and vengeful god or do i worship a powerful and greedy little man?)

[zac510]

Arguably that sending sporting events and Western audiences to these countries you want to boycott draws more attention to the country and in turn pressures them to 'clean up'.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by zac510

Arguably that sending sporting events and Western audiences to these countries you want to boycott draws more attention to the country and in turn pressures them to 'clean up'.

Believe in the tooth fairy too do you?

[zac510]

They want to be involved in Western civilization and sporting cultures. They want to assimilate with us. They will have to change to be able to do that. Can't you see?

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by zac510

They want to be involved in Western civilization and sporting cultures. They want to assimilate with us. They will have to change to be able to do that. Can't you see?

I must visit your paradise one day!!!

[zac510]

Care to challenge (or change) my opinion with some intelligent and intellectual argument?