Brit GT and Group C

[JAG]

Anyone know the entries for the BGT and Group C races at Silverstone next week.

Will the Lancias and IMSA GTP Nissan be competing

[NissanGTP]

I'm afraid I am going to have to dissapoint on both fronts there. Benton Bryan, who owns the Lancia, can't make it and our Nissan still doesn't have an engine. Unfortunately we had a piston melt on the dyno which means we won't have the car ready until Zolder now. Good news is that it is making stupid amount of power already!

[JAG]

Are there going to be more link ups with US Group C/GTP cars now that there is a single Group C/GTP owners series in Europe.

I would love to see a 2 hour race in the summer next year with US cars coming over such as the Nissan and Mercedes Group c cars that have competed in the US.

Also any word on cars that are being prepared for next season.

[NissanGTP]

Hopefully we will be seeing more of the American cars over here and vice versa. The Lancias are definately going to be out again at Monza and maybe again before the end of the season. I certainly agree on the longer races and I have no doubt that the series will go that way.

There are various cars still in various states of rebuild. Harvey Cooke's Spice should be out at Silverstone for the first time and Phil Stott is in the process of rebuilding 2 Tigas (one with a porsche engine and one with a turbo cosworth). Have a look at Phil's homepage (www.philstott.co.uk). Mike Jankowski should have his Courage out soon and Henry Pearman will be out in his Porsche 962.

[JAG]

Thanks for the info.

Looks like Historic Group C is building up to be the sportscar equivalent of TGP.

[JAG]

Just heard there will hopefully be a 35 car entry for the Silverstone Group C race.

BTW does anyone know if the 3.5l Group C cars such as the Nissan P35, 905 would be allowed to race, maybe in an invitation class.

The championship rules say these cars are not allowed.

[KA]

Originally posted by JAG
BTW does anyone know if the 3.5l Group C cars such as the Nissan P35, 905 would be allowed to race, maybe in an invitation class.

The championship rules say these cars are not allowed.

They'd have to play that situation pretty carefully- if you turned up with a top class driver in something like an XJR14 (the TWR collection is up for auction in July, and includes a 14....) then you'd be pretty difficult to beat, and the last thing you want to do is risk losing entries by allowing one of those later cars to dominate.

[NissanGTP]

I haven’t seen an entry list yet but it should be good if the entry at Spa is anything to go by.

The 905 and XJR-14 have been specifically banned as opposed to all cars running in the 3.5 litre class. Some people, myself NOT included, think they are too fast for some ridiculous reason. Hopefully it is a temporary measure which will be overturned as soon as the series is healthier. Personally I think that these cars are a spectacle for both spectators and drivers alike and should be welcomed with open arms.

So far nobody has objected to the rebuild of our P-35, which is unlikely to be competitive, so hopefully we will be allowed to run it (in the invitation class if necessary).

[NissanGTP]

In response to KA...

At the moment the Jag XJR10/11 are running away with everything so I think it would be a pleasant change to have something else winning a few races.

Also, I honestly don’t think that the later cars will be as quick as everyone anticipates. You have to remember that, in period, these cars were being run like Formula 1 cars by Formula 1 type teams with Formula 1 budgets. To get the performance out of the very high revving F1 engines you have to rebuild them on a regular basis. Nobody at our level of racing has the budget to really rev these engines (we go two seasons with our Spice Cosworth) so the ultimate performance will be left untouched. The level of complexity is, currently, beyond the teams running in Group-C and this has been displayed by the two Lola T92/10’s in the states, which have broken down virtually every time they have raced.

The IMSA cars are the ones to worry about. If you want to win everything in Group-C then buy a Toyota Eagle!

[JAG]

Originally posted by NissanGTP
In response to KA...

At the moment the Jag XJR10/11 are running away with everything so I think it would be a pleasant change to have something else winning a few races.

Also, I honestly don’t think that the later cars will be as quick as everyone anticipates. You have to remember that, in period, these cars were being run like Formula 1 cars by Formula 1 type teams with Formula 1 budgets. To get the performance out of the very high revving F1 engines you have to rebuild them on a regular basis. Nobody at our level of racing has the budget to really rev these engines (we go two seasons with our Spice Cosworth) so the ultimate performance will be left untouched. The level of complexity is, currently, beyond the teams running in Group-C and this has been displayed by the two Lola T92/10’s in the states, which have broken down virtually every time they have raced.

The IMSA cars are the ones to worry about. If you want to win everything in Group-C then buy a Toyota Eagle!

I have to agree as the 3.5l cars. Even in there heyday they ran with lower revs at Le Mans and in the case of the smaller teams, lower revs at all of the races, to save costs on rebuilds etc.

I can't see an XJR-14 or 905 being any quicker than an XJR-11/16 or such like as they would have much less power due to lower revs/less sophisticated fuel and the fact they do not have the very latest tyres.

If you look at qualifying times at LM the last of the turbocharged cars were just as quick as the 3.5l cars with the exception of the very last generation 905s and TS010s. Even then these cars were specially prepared qualifying cars, giving them yet another advantage over the turbo cars.

I belive an Historic Group C/IMSA GTP series should cover the whole history of the respective series.

[MulsanneMike]

Another thing to take into consideration, at their peak, the 3.5 liter teams were employing current F1 drivers. Not to slag on the Historic guys at all, but you have to take into account that the cars were driven by the very best in the business and that certainly accounted for some of the lap time.

[rdjones]

I have just found out that 1 of the TVR's which will race at Le Mans this year, is down to race on Sunday. There is also a Ferrari F40 entered aswell. So I might pop down to Silverstone and take a look.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Off-topic:

Does any of you guys already know a provisional entry list for the Zolder race in June?
And how are the Aston Martin and Jaguar that heavily crashed at Spa?

[marcmercer]

I think it would be nuts to allow the 3rd generation group C cars. They are what killed off group C originally, surely we don't want to see a repeat in historic grp C just as it is taking off?

Fundamentally these cars bring a whole new level of technology and expense. If a few people bring these cars in which undoubtably will be quicker (there is no denying that - lighter, more powerful, later technology) what happens? Either drivers find the crazy amounts of money to get themselves one of these cars to stay competetive ... or you force them out to another series such as TGP. Who wants to race an uncompetetive car even if it is historic racing?

Those who have entered the series already, have invested time and money to build up a competetive car to the original set of rules. Moving the goal posts by allowing these later cars instantly devalues this investment - and yet these people who have commited early to this new series have been the ones who have helped the revival of the series.

Currently there are a variety of cars out there winning races ... 962s, Astons, Spice and Jags. They've given us some pretty good racing already and mean there are a number of relatively accessable cars out there avaliable for someone to be competetive in. Introduce the later cars and sure you may get to see one or two very impressive cars walking away with it ... but you run the very real risk of alienating all the other competetors and ending up with no series at all.

Marc

[Lee Janotta]

C'mon, couldn't the later cars just be weighed down? It's an insult to the fans and a shame for the owners if they can't run at all. I don't think we should be cheated just because that (insert every expletetive you can possibly think of!) Balestre screwed up the whole class and nearly destroyed sports car racing in it's entirety.

The driver talent and preparation levels are so varied that the best 962 drivers shouldn't have anything to worry about from a less talented driver in a C11 or an XJR14.

I'd love to see a Nissan GTP-ZX running across the pond. Nissan would have a LeMans win if they'd sent Electromotive to La Sarthe.

[NissanGTP]

The 3rd generation cars did not kill off Group-C, it was the expense and politics that came along with them. It is the expense of running these cars to there maximum that will preclude them from walking away in any races. They will have no more power than a Cosworth Spice (and far less than a 3.8 Cosworth), will weigh no less but come along with huge dose of over-complexity.

Look at how successful the Spices have been in Group-C. This is because it is relatively easy for an historic race team to run them to their full potential. A 3rd generation car will need a vast amount of resource in comparison, resource that historic racers just don’t have. As I said before, you just have to look at the lack of success the Lola T92-10s have had in the states.

To say that these cars will scare other people out of the series is wrong too. The goalposts in any series progress naturally and why should anyone who has become accustomed to being beaten by an XJR11 suddenly leave the series because they are been beaten by an XJR14 instead? Personally, I relish the competition.

I the mean time… I hope you guys posting here are going to come along to Silverstone to see these spectacular cars in the flesh. If the race is anything like the one at Spa it will be fantastic.

Stranger – I have not seen an entry list for Silverstone, let alone Zolder! Also, I doubt Rini’s jag will be repaired for a while as the damage went right back to the tub. Paul Wights Aston should be out as the damage on that was largely superficial and he has a spare set of bodywork waiting to go on.

[JAG]

Its 50/50 whether I can get to Silverstone, but will definitely be out and Donnington and hopefully the other UK round/s.

Nissan GTP, will there be a media/gallery page on the Group C/GTP site as I would donate all my GroupC/IMSA GTP photos and DV Camara footage of the races I go too.

[NissanGTP]

There is not currently a media gallery but pictures do tend to be posted up with the race reports and Im sure the organisers would welcome your photos. Best to email contact@groupc-gtpracing.com and let them know of your kind offer.

Hope to see you at Silvestone, if not one of the other meetings.

[ss_collins]

I'll be there - grab me if you see me!

[JAG]

http://www.dailysportscar.net/news/news0542.htm

Some interesting info on the TWR Jaguars up for auction.

Also anyone see Autosport today. There are 2 IMSA GTP Nissans for sale, the 1991 Sebring winnier for $325,000 and the Momo Nissan GTP for $295,000.

I hope someone picks these up for the European Group C/GTP series.

Also nice to see the Richard Lloyd 962C competing at Silverstone.

Also I see the XJR-16 is not racing. Is it damged or have mechanical problems.

Add the Nissan GTP, XJR-16, XJR-12D and a couple of 962s to the current grid and there will be upto a dozen cars capable of winning outright.

[Graham Goodwin]

The XJR16 had a big off last time out

The Group C cars shared their testing session with the Brit GTs today - David Lord has put some great shots up in a gallery on dsc - take a look and come on down to Silverstone Sunday - Monday

Wonderful cars

[rdjones]

Just seen the Gallery all I have to say is wow - can not wait for Sunday.

[rdjones]

Sadly the Group C's weren't on track yesterday, but there where a few on show in the paddock, including the ex-Damon Hill Le Mans Porsche 962

[JAG]

http://www.wyles-hardy.co.uk/equipment2.html#twr1

Really hope some teams race these in the Euro GroupC/GTP series.

Didn't realise the same chassis won 1990 LM AND 1988 Daytona 24Hrs.

[ss_collins]

they were great to watch racing