No Class....No Surprise!

[Dov]

From CrapWagon.com......

Some direct quotes from the memo sent to teams:

"While the IRL was intended to serve racetracks and markets not served by CART, it was treated as an enemy by CART and by some others. We never measured our success against CART's, since we compete against all forms of entertainment in our economy. We go about our business with only one objective: to build our League."

"When the IRL was announced in June 1994, the official news release said that ovals AND ROAD COURSES (WHAT?!?!?!?!) would be included. Our concentration has been on oval tracks since our first season and we will continue to be a predominately oval series in the future. But we are committed to expand our schedule to preserve and protect key traditional road and street races in North America, SINCE CART IS NO LONGER ABLE TO DO SO."

"Over its history, the IRL has welcomed former CART promoters, sponsors, teams, drivers and suppliers into our League family. Many of you receiving this letter today are among those newest members to join us. As all of us share the same passion for open wheel racing, our organization greeted you with respect, professionalism, and a dedication to your success in racing. It is a source of pride to me that some of the League's staunchest critics now rank among its most steadfast supporters. That's why we look forward to working with members of the CART community as we bring open wheel racing together.

Clearly, it is in the best interests of open wheel racing to move forward into the 21st Century with one series, based upon the heritage of the Indy 500, taking advantage of the many new oval venues built in the last decade and incorporating historic road and street courses which are important to fans and sponsors.

From a modest beginning, the League is now regarded by impartial observers as the premier American open wheel series. The IRL, backed by the Indpls. Motor Spdwy, and a wide array of sponsors, teams, drivers and fans, is the sanctioning body best positioned to offer leadership in open wheel racing.

Regardless of the outcome of our bid, the IRL will continue to adhere to our founding principles, will continue to be a predominately oval series, and will expand our existing schedule to include road and street races in North America.

[Brian W Keske]

I don't get why you think this is 'classless'?.....'crack' wasn't brought up once in the statement.

[Jay]

I can't say this is a huge shock to me...or that I'm even that appalled... heck, if I were the IRL, I would have done the same. It's up to the teams to decide where they want to compete.

It's not quite as bad as what Honda and Toyota were doing at the end of 2002, dangling huge buckets of money in front of almost every CART team saying, we'll cover your budgets next season if you join us in the IRL - now that was classless.

[Dov]

Originally posted by Brian W Keske
I don't get why you think this is 'classless'?.....'crack' wasn't brought up once in the statement.

I was talking about TG and the IRL.....

[Dov]

Jay, by TG going after our teams, how does he expect to gain any trust or respect from ChampCar fans? All he is doing is alienating us. It's just another slap in the face to CC fans!!!

[Wrex]

Dov, I think you need to add 'IMHO' a bit more to your posts.

[MLM]

OK, take a GOOD Look at that 2nd sentence (I'm putting it in caps to highlight it)..."many of you.....ARE AMONG THOSE NEWEST MEMBERS TO JOIN US"

"Over its history, the IRL has welcomed former CART promoters, sponsors, teams, drivers and suppliers into our League family. Many of you receiving this letter today are among those newest members to join us. As all of us share the same passion for open wheel racing, our organization greeted you with respect, professionalism, and a dedication to your success in racing. It is a source of pride to me that some of the League's staunchest critics now rank among its most steadfast supporters. That's why we look forward to working with members of the CART community as we bring open wheel racing together."

I'm just asking...not flaming or aything, but does that mean what I think it means? Did everyone get this? If not, who?
Would TG put this out IF it wasn't a done deal?

[Jay]

I really hate to say it, but the reality of the situation is that the few CART fans that are really passionate about the open-wheel war would likely not fill a grandstand at most CART events.

That's why TG can do whatever he wants, no ethics, no care for the people involved or anyone else but himself and his ego - and since he's loaded, money isn't a concern either. It's to the point where, as far as fans go, it can't get much worse for CART and the IRL. Thus, he could care less about the few thousands die-hard CART fans that might just sulk off into the distance (or in my case go to sportscars), rather than following his series.

The only reason TG is doing any of this is to kill off CART racing once and for all. At this point, it's purely his own vengance for things that happened a long time ago...and of course his ego. So now, he's trying to make sure that his only open-wheel competition doesn't get started again.

I have no idea of the numbers involved in the deals, as I havent looked - I just hope that the OWRS plan has more to offer to the shareholders, because that is what the judge will look at. He could care less about the whole open-wheel war or the few thousand die hard CART fans. OWRS has til next Wednesday to make a counter offer, so let's hope it happens!

[Jay]

MLM, I suspect it's written that way just to get CART owners thinking that they wouldn't be alone - I wouldn't read anything into it. It's a pretty common thing in press releases.

[MLM]

So, the owners can heave a sigh of relief and say "whew,at least I have SOMEWHERE to go"?

Jay, tell me something, IYHO, just how many fans will follow a unified series as opposed to those "die hards" who say they WON'T follow one? More? Less?
I've heard people at 7thgear, CW, friends, etc...say they would NOT support any series in which TG is involved...and I've heard of people at 7thgear, TF, friends who say they will.(I DON'T think at CW,though...that's MHO)
I would also like to hear other opinions on this matter, too.

[Jay]

It really depends on where the IRL decided to take themselves...

As much as I hate to say it, I think the fans at CART's most successful events - Long Beach, Toronto, Montreal, Surfer's Paradise, Mexico, etc would still come in the similar numbers if the series changed. Perhaps there would be a slight attendance drop for a year or two, but I don't think it would last, particularly if there was a local driver or two. These places are more about racing events than CART events - and many of the fans still refer to the cars as 'Indycars', could only name the local drivers, can't tell Mario from Michael Andretti and although they may follow CART/IRL, they could tell you very little about the 'war'. If the IRL kept these events going, I think the only difference 3 years from now would be the cars - in fact, as the economy continues to improve, they would probably have grown.

If the IRL decided to keep itself an all-oval series it would leave quite a void in North AMerican racing, and there'd be a lot of people without a local series to follow. Most would follow F1 from afar, and some would probably follow sports cars more closely (ALMS would have a larger fan base no doubt). Hopefully, the same people that tried to revive CART would try to start another open-wheel road racing series from scratch, and hopefully it would have better luck.

As far as number of fans goes, I can't see that the attendances at the IRL's current venues would chance much - or if they did it would have nothing to do with CART's demise, but the leagues overall growth. If they drew a 1.1 for a race in 2003, maybe that would be a 1.5 or at most a 1.7 in 2005. Whatever way you cut it, open-wheel racing just isn't that popular in North America, and despite what people will tell you about the glory days, apart from the Indy 500, it never has been.

[MLM]

Thanks, Jay
I don't think the IRL would stay with an all-oval series..TG wants road courses, no matter what some IRL faithful say. I can't see another group starting another series. IMO, I think we're getting burned out and to the end of our ropes with this "split" (the politics, the bickering, the rancor, etc...)

I didn't think about the spectators at those "marquee" CART events, but you're right, a lot of them are there for the spectacle.

[Jay]

guess that was the long answer...lol

To be honest though, reading the above letter again... I have to wonder if it's for real or just something someone at CW wrote to stir up the rif raf there.

[MLM]

Speaking of which (CW), I want to pick your brain once more before I retire: what do you think would become of CART-oriented forum or sites like CW, 7thgear, OC, etc...IF a merger/.... goes through?

Do you think they'll stay in business, fold up shop, merge?
(especially the hard core sites like CW, where the members are VERY anti-TG)

It appears that at lot of these places have "CART and CART only" fans who would NEVER support any merger with TG. It seems like a lot of people have left those places because of their too-rabid or too-tolerant stance(it seems like no one can win ) Would those places die? Or would they go on?

Can you tell I'm in a curious mode tonight?
However, I need to put a stop on my curiosity and go to bed!
Night, all! See you sometime, tomorrow (same Bat Time, same Bat Channel, hehe )

[Dov]

Originally posted by Wrex
Dov, I think you need to add 'IMHO' a bit more to your posts.

I still don't know what 'IMHO' stands for!? Anybody???

[MLM]

Originally posted by Dov
I still don't know what 'IMHO' stands for!? Anybody???

In My Humble Opinion

[indycool]

Jay, very insightful post, your "long one." I agree some form of that scenario would take place.

That sounds like a TG letter to me. Why wouldn't he write something like that to teams? He's in a position to unify the series. OWRS isn't.

Some argue this with me, but I don't understand how forum posters who have advocated one series every time Mario or Penske or whoever make statements advocating it saying "it's best for open wheel racing" have turned around as this has evolved and now don't want it.

Unification was never going to please anyone 100 percent anyway.

[GP Racer]

I fail to see where TG's letter(if its real)is classless?

If you mean that its classless, because you think TG went after and "stole" teams away, do we really know that? It could have been the teams looking to the IRL for answers. I'm sure they are getting nervous, as the season closes in, and still no definitive answers from OWRS.

I know PG is your guy and your hope, but after reading some of his letters and statements lately, with its anti-merger, anti IRL, anti one series, anti everything rhetoric, I find it difficult to understand how this letter is the one you find classless. This letter seems well thought out, unifying, and it seemingly gives some hope to the CART teams that are without much of that presently.

Bottom line of this letter is, it does sound as though some teams have jumped ship and gone over to the IRL side, doesn't it?

[suzmac]

Okay here's my question....if TG wants to race predominantly ovals then why doesn't he go to NASCAR and leave us be???? Ovals are BORING!!!!

IMHO
Sue

[indycool]

He has gone to NASCAR. The Brickyard 400 is held annually at IMS.

[Jay]

MLM, interesting question... I think some of those sites are more based off of their hatred of the IRL, rather than their liking of CART, so they probably would continue to exist as anti-IRL sites, albeit with a decreasing membership as people started to get over it. Some like 7th gear would probably instantly become an IRL site.

Can you tell I"m at the point where I'd like to see it get sorted out one way or another?

I guess one reason I'm somewhat indifferent to 2004, is that I realise I won't have time for many racing events and it will almost be an off year for me...sad to say.

[Testure]

Originally posted by MLM
OK, take a GOOD Look at that 2nd sentence (I'm putting it in caps to highlight it)..."many of you.....ARE AMONG THOSE NEWEST MEMBERS TO JOIN US"

According to an Indy Star article the letter above was sent to the IRL teams, not the CART ones. Yes, it would have been a little ... premature shall we say, to write to the CART guys like that. But it was for the IRL guys, so looks like a fair statement to me.

[MLM]

Originally posted by Testure
According to an Indy Star article the letter above was sent to the IRL teams, not the CART ones. Yes, it would have been a little ... premature shall we say, to write to the CART guys like that. But it was for the IRL guys, so looks like a fair statement to me.

OK, my mistake....thanks.

[BootsOntheSide]

That statemtn still makes it sound like the IRL is trying to please all the people, all the time. He can't have a predominantly oval-based championship while saving all the significant CART races. You can't keep the championship affordable while increasing the number of rac es and the cost of equipment. You can't save races by ensuring that they won't run for a year.

[indycool]

Boots, he's made no mention about saving ALL the significant CART races. Right now, there are only seven CART races that aren't in some kind of question.

On an affordable championship, I think he'll build to 20 races and leave it there. Cost of equipment hasn't gone up appreciably, but you're right, more races, more budget.

His bid is for Long Beach. Long Beach filed motions Friday to have its contract transfer to OWRS (if come) denied and also moved to disqualify OWRS as a bidder overall because they haven't shown anybody the money or the race cars yet. Long Beach wouldn't make this move unless it had an alternate plan for '05 with either Grand Am or ALMS.