|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
8 Jul 2004, 10:50 (Ref:1030047) | #1 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 542
|
STANDARDS AUSTRALIA and Motor Racing
Standards Australia held a forum on the 13th May 2004 to discuss the need for a standard in motor racing. Standards Australia determined from the feedback from this forum that a standard would not be appropriate at this time. The forum did indicate, however, that there was wide support for an application guide (Risk Management in Motor Racing)showing how risk management can be applied in motor racing. To this end, Standards Australia has approved the formation of a working group, under Committee B-007 Risk Management, to develop this document.
It is expected that the handbook will be published in 2005. Last edited by spook; 8 Jul 2004 at 10:51. |
|
__________________
If it is to be, it is up to US. The spook's ten most important two letter words. |
8 Jul 2004, 20:28 (Ref:1030638) | #2 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 844
|
It would take 10 years to write a standard for motor sport! My company is involved in chemical manufacturing and we have just been through the standards procass as well as configuring everything to OH&S requirements - Labelling of Workplace Substances NOHSC:2012[1994] is needed just to produce a new label for a product and it is 69 full A4 pages of requirements alone - I'd hate to see the requirements needed to stand in front of a racecar coming straight at you at 40 to stop on your toes in the pits!
|
||
|
9 Jul 2004, 01:16 (Ref:1030853) | #3 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,511
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions? |
12 Jul 2004, 00:40 (Ref:1033595) | #4 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 177
|
Spook,
Is there anywhere that a report on this can be downloaded/read? |
||
|
12 Jul 2004, 05:20 (Ref:1033673) | #5 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 62
|
This would be the last thing Australian motorsport needs.
Standards are normally impossible to fully comply with, if all companies followed all their relevant standards to a tee, they wouldn't be in business, and they would be so uncompetitive compared to overseas imports. Standards are a profit making business, the more standards they can write the more they can sell. I can’t see the benefit for motorsport at all. The sport is always finding ways to make it a safer sport anyway! |
|
|
12 Jul 2004, 09:01 (Ref:1033836) | #6 | |
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 206
|
Don't know much about Australian Standards (AS), eh Mr. Dude?
Aust. Standards are developed by the industry they are meant to represent. In other words AS for Electric Blankets would be developed by Standards Australia with expert help from Electric Blanket Manufacturers, Electricians, etc. Standards Australia are only the moderator in the process. Go an find out a bit before you comment on stuff. Worked around many racetracks, Mr Dude? Obviously not or you would know that there are always some safety improvements to be, whether it be for spectators, officials, race teams. Last edited by Chronicle; 12 Jul 2004 at 09:03. |
|
|
12 Jul 2004, 20:49 (Ref:1034668) | #7 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 844
|
Um... Mr Chronicle - go start an electric blanket manufacturing plant and try and get the required standards you need for free.....bet they cost you a couple of hundred. Then, once you have conformed and have your Quality system in place to make sure your blankets meet the standard - guess who you have to ring to get Quality Assurance - that's right - the same people that sold you the standard - it will cost you, depending on the size of your company, anywhere from $430 to $850 to APPLY for certification. You don't even want to know what a third party audit of your system will cost to get your certificate, which you then have to pay to keep every year ( after an annual audit that is!).....so leave Mr Dude alone!
|
||
|
12 Jul 2004, 22:15 (Ref:1034760) | #8 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 707
|
Sounds cheap compared to a CAMS track Licences
|
||
__________________
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports, all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway. |
12 Jul 2004, 22:45 (Ref:1034793) | #9 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 844
|
well, part of any really good quality system is an integrated environmental system, for which you repeat the process of the quality system. it is becoming fairly mandatory to show that what you are doing will not impact on the environment - so I would say there would be standards drawn up for this for motor sport with regard to noise pollution, exhaust emissions, disposal of oils and fuels etc. It can cost anywhere up to $100,000 + to develop and have certified your system, on top of probably around the same for the quality system. honestly - for motorsport it is just waaaaayyy too hard
|
||
|
12 Jul 2004, 23:56 (Ref:1034829) | #10 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 62
|
Well said SRabbit
And for Mr Chronicle, you could say I have a very close connection with standards Australia (Member) and also have been relatively close to the action in the pits at many race meetings. Standards do have their place in business. But it would be nice to see motorsport stay away from politics and paper work! Just good old racing and common sense!! |
|
|
13 Jul 2004, 08:05 (Ref:1035006) | #11 | ||
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 206
|
Quote:
Anyway, 1. who said you have gain Certification? 2. If you decide to gain Certification, who said you have to use Standards Aust., there are lots of Certifying bodies out there, NATA, Lloyds, just to name a couple. 3. Please don't get Quality Assurace (or the ISO 9000 series) confused with manufacturing standards. 4. Go back and read the first post, particularly where it says that the "guide" would be based on the current Risk Management Australian Standard. (AS/NZS 4360:1999 : Risk management) Last edited by Chronicle; 13 Jul 2004 at 08:13. |
||
|
13 Jul 2004, 20:52 (Ref:1035830) | #12 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 844
|
1. who says a governing body like AVESCO is going to take your word that you internally audit a complete and correct system? we are, after all, still finding mysterious inexplicable wiring to control components. If AVESCO are serious about intitiating a standard and enforcing it, everyone involved with the cars and teams will need a system in place so that the whole body known as V8Supercars works together - and that will have to extend to drivers, crew, the man selling hotdogs out of the caravan and the bloke showing you where to park your car. It will end the contribution of the car clubs to the weekends as they will not be able to be involved. Even IF they were able to avoid certification, they would have to factor in the costs of man hours to prepare and monitor ( probably a new full time employee ) not to mention the costs of changing the way you do things to conform to the standard - it will still cost $100K+ p.a
2. Wouldn't matter which company you chose - all costs the same 3. Under the Government contracts we have in place in my company we are required to maintain certification for ISO9001:2000 as a manufcaturer and supplier of products for the duration of the contract.(see the next point) 4. Since I am not familiar with the contents of 4360:1999, I am going to make a general statement that you will probably shoot down - it's all the same anyway. All the standard are written to stop you from hurting yourself or someone else. They break them down so you feel good about getting the one you 'need' for your particular situation. However, to write a standrad for motorsport is one I wouldn't want to be involved in. It will have to extend from the way the mechanics do their work back at the factory, how the cars are loaded, secudred, tansported, what's the truck driver wearing?, unloaded, imagine the section of getting UNDER the car, the crew, how the fuel is handled, it may even extend to whats allowed to go on on the track so no one crashes, the guy in the caravan with his hotdogs, hows the van moved and secured, how much of his packaging can be recycled, is the guy in the car park going to get run over? how do you know? what about the poor bloke who gets a car stopped on his toes with the pit board. on & on & on & on........ Last edited by SRabbit; 13 Jul 2004 at 20:54. |
||
|
14 Jul 2004, 03:41 (Ref:1036016) | #13 | |
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 206
|
You are right on one point; yes I am going to shoot you down.
The first poster on this thread said quite clearly that there is NOT going to be an Australian Standard for Motorsport, or did I miss something, they said a GUIDE was going to be developed and this GUIDE would be for RISK MANAGEMENT, that means MANAGING RISKS on the race track. In case you don't know what MANAGING RISKS means, it means you go out into the workplace (race track) and identify all the RISKS or hazards (these are things where people can hurt themselves), then you list all the RISKS you can find (it is a good idea to use specialists to help you do this, for example - flaggies), then when you have listed all the RISKS you rate them according to A RISK assessment matrix. Once you have done these jobs, the outcome will have been that you should have identified all the really bad things that people can hurt themselves doing, to the not-so-bad things. From that, you then fix the really bad things first, then you work you way down the list until you fix the not-so-bad things last. Then you go and start the whole process again, because things change all the time. THIS PROCESS IS CALLED MANAGING RISKS, there are also lots of other things involved in RISK MANAGEMENT, but I think that will do for today’s lesson. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET AUDITED FOR RISK MANAGEMENT UNLESS YOU WANT TO!, however there are tools out there to do it with for example AS/NZS 4804:2001 - Occupational health and safety management systems, or in Victoria you can use SafetyMAP, and yes I have a pretty good background in OH&S as well. I get the feeling that you are quite happy to work in UNSAFE places, maybe you should step back and have a look around yourself. And if you think I am being sarcastic and flippant, you are absolutely sopt-on! Last edited by Chronicle; 14 Jul 2004 at 03:47. |
|
|
14 Jul 2004, 06:28 (Ref:1036065) | #14 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 844
|
the only thing i have learnt from that is that i should use bold and caps together - thanks! it looks great!
I am obviously coming at this from an OH&S angle, and you have backed it up by saying it is about identifying risk and how to avoid it - so thanks again! imagine...a set of guidelines that will dictate how everything has be done in, on and around the track by everyone....TC must be champing at the bit, he will probably 'enthusiastically suggest' that AVESCO be on the commitee - you think it's a control category now - he'll have total domination! |
||
|
14 Jul 2004, 07:22 (Ref:1036094) | #15 | |
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 206
|
The committee that will be establishing the Guide is already formed, and this might come as a surprise to you, but TC nor CAMS are not on it, it is the track owners, some Risk Managment experts and a few others.
You really have missed the point haven't you. BYE!!!, no more to say to you. |
|
|
14 Jul 2004, 12:39 (Ref:1036346) | #16 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 75
|
As I understand it, CAMS didn't apply for or even get an invite to the original meeting.
Now, doesn't this say something about the way CAMS really sees motorsport in this country? The only time CAMS stick their collective heads out of their door is when someone is badly injured or killed and then only to say 'How terrible - of course we will assist with all enquiries'. But afterwards - it is all forgotten. For example - where all of the coroners recommendations from Greg Hansfords death implemented by CAMS? |
|
|
15 Jul 2004, 05:17 (Ref:1036964) | #17 | |
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 206
|
I believe CAMS were inivited but decided not to attend, I will stand corrected on that though.
|
|
|
21 Jul 2004, 22:18 (Ref:1042604) | #18 | |
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 206
|
Oh uh, no correction, so I must have been right.
|
|
|
22 Jul 2004, 10:25 (Ref:1042991) | #19 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 542
|
I believe that CAMS scheduled a meeting of the National Track Safety Committee at exactly the same time as the Standards Forum, and therefore it was unfortunate that no one from the NTSC was able to attend the Forum.
Has anyone seen any minutes of that NTSC meeting? I did note that Professor Rod Troutbeck was there at the forum, but not representing CAMS of course. |
|
__________________
If it is to be, it is up to US. The spook's ten most important two letter words. |
22 Jul 2004, 11:59 (Ref:1043326) | #20 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 75
|
Chronicle - apologies didn't see your comment. You may well be correct - my information was they hadn't been invited for the initial meeting - but, as I say, I didn;t have that confirmed.
|
|
|
29 Jul 2004, 05:48 (Ref:1050521) | #21 | |
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 206
|
CAMS MAY resist this as it MAY mean they MAY loose the power
|
|
|
25 Oct 2004, 07:41 (Ref:1134606) | #22 | ||
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 206
|
and here is the latest installment on this, compliments of Racenews. Interesting reading really. CAMS really has done a backflip.
Quote:
I believe this guy was on the committee representing other interests and CAMS have claimed him as their own. Last edited by Chronicle; 25 Oct 2004 at 07:46. |
||
|
25 Oct 2004, 08:28 (Ref:1134648) | #23 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 707
|
I think Bob Jane hit the nail on the head when he put out a press release last year saying CAMS are nothing but smoke & mirrors.
|
||
__________________
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports, all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway. |
25 Oct 2004, 08:39 (Ref:1134657) | #24 | ||
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 206
|
Having read through that garbage again, I note:
Quote:
Last edited by Chronicle; 25 Oct 2004 at 08:40. |
||
|
25 Oct 2004, 11:56 (Ref:1134890) | #25 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,387
|
I have heard the good Dr. is not representing CAMS in this matter and told them that he would not be representing them.
|
||
__________________
Life is all about Ass. You're either covering it, kissing it, kicking it, laughing it off, busting it or trying to get a piece of it. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Motor Racing Types In Different Racing Machines... | GTRMagic | Australasian Touring Cars. | 15 | 27 Dec 2005 22:15 |
Motor Racing in Western Australia | mabs_nsx | Australasian Touring Cars. | 79 | 26 Jul 2005 12:52 |
"The most anticipated new motor racing team in Australia..." in sponsor trouble? | GTRMagic | Australasian Touring Cars. | 38 | 17 Jun 2005 23:23 |
Current Australian Motor Sport Approval Standards Acknowledged Internationally | RaceTime | Australasian Touring Cars. | 139 | 22 Apr 2004 18:32 |