Penske

BSchneiderFan · 27 Jul 2005, 10:16 (Ref:1364496)

An entirely speculative idea, but if Mercedes-Benz had decided to enter F1 in the 1990s with Penske (for whom they built Indy engines) rather than Sauber, do you think Penske could have cut the mustard in F1?

Kicking-back · 27 Jul 2005, 10:19 (Ref:1364501)

Yes.

Well funded, they'd have attracted good staff and drivers.

luke · 27 Jul 2005, 10:22 (Ref:1364504)

Paul Tracy had a test with F1 and drove for Penske in Champ Car, perhaps he could have been a driver for them, who knows?

Kicking-back · 27 Jul 2005, 10:26 (Ref:1364508)

I think they'd have wanted to get someone a bit faster and fitter, by F1 standards.

Paul back in the mid nineties was a bit of a fat-boy....

Down F0rce · 27 Jul 2005, 10:33 (Ref:1364520)

Even so, he was still offered a job by Benetton after his test.

Penske would have been right up there, I think.

BootsOntheSide · 27 Jul 2005, 11:28 (Ref:1364575)

With full commitment and good equipment Penske would have done very well. Roger's always had a very well-organised ship, and their facilities in England were at least equal to those of a smaller F1 team of the day. As for drivers I suspect Wendlinger would've got one drive due to his Mercedes connections, and Lehto may have been as good as anyone for the second car.

**Adam43** · 27 Jul 2005, 11:47 (Ref:1364585)

I think they would have done well. If only because they would only attempt it if they were going to have the resources.

Of course they have had a crack at F1. 40 races, 1 win, 3 podiums. John Watson got the win in the 1976 Austrian GP.

Knowlesy · 27 Jul 2005, 16:48 (Ref:1364808)

They obviously would have done well, all it would have required was total commitment and they could probably have been automatic winners after a few years. Penske is a fabulous organisation.

Snrub · 27 Jul 2005, 17:51 (Ref:1364877)

I think Penske probably could have been at least resonably successful, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that they would have been at Williams/McLaren's level. (too hard to say)

F1 needed someone Faster than PT? Who led the most laps in '93 and tied Mansell for victories (5)?

Knowlesy · 27 Jul 2005, 17:52 (Ref:1364880)

PT would have been a fair old driver in F1 IMO.

Snrub · 27 Jul 2005, 18:37 (Ref:1364923)

What year are we talking about? In '93 he was 25.

Kicking-back · 27 Jul 2005, 18:53 (Ref:1364938)

lol

I don't think Knowlesy was making an age reference, he was just using a turn of phrase, meaning "PT would have done a decent job in F1"

Knowlesy · 27 Jul 2005, 20:25 (Ref:1365011)

Correct!

Dan Fielden · 27 Jul 2005, 20:45 (Ref:1365030)

Yes i think they would have been succesfull but you could probably say that about the Target team and Newman/Haas couldn't you. I mean they have the resources, funds, drivers, all they need is the commitment right?

BSchneiderFan · 27 Jul 2005, 22:27 (Ref:1365100)

Penske has a depth of engineering excellence that, in my opinion, outstrips that of Newman-Haas or Ganassi. After all, so far as I'm aware, neither of those teams have built their own cars, whereas Penske have done so, and done so with great success.

Jordi · 27 Jul 2005, 23:03 (Ref:1365127)

Penske is the Ferrari of North America, in some ways.

VilleneuveTracy · 28 Jul 2005, 00:34 (Ref:1365166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordi

Penske is the Ferrari of North America, in some ways.

In open wheel racing, yes, but it has yet to win a NASCAR championship. It hasn't even seriously contended for a NASCAR championship in well over a decade, which is astonishing given The Captain's legendary record in motorsports.

Quote:

Even so, he was still offered a job by Benetton after his test.

Why did PT elect to stay in IndyCar instead of moving to F1? Wasn't F1 considered to be a superior series, even in 1993?

2112 · 28 Jul 2005, 04:41 (Ref:1365228)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

In open wheel racing, yes, but it has yet to win a NASCAR championship. It hasn't even seriously contended for a NASCAR championship in well over a decade, which is astonishing given The Captain's legendary record in motorsports.

Why did PT elect to stay in IndyCar instead of moving to F1? Wasn't F1 considered to be a superior series, even in 1993?

According to PT, Flavio handed him a contract while alone in Europe, and told him to sign it now, or else.
PT felt pressed as a young kid and refused it without consultation. That`s his story.

Jordi · 28 Jul 2005, 08:50 (Ref:1365343)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

In open wheel racing, yes, but it has yet to win a NASCAR championship. It hasn't even seriously contended for a NASCAR championship in well over a decade, which is astonishing given The Captain's legendary record in motorsports.

But then again Ferrari have also concentrated solely on F1 since the late 60s or so, haven't they?

VilleneuveTracy · 28 Jul 2005, 18:27 (Ref:1365824)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordi

But then again Ferrari have also concentrated solely on F1 since the late 60s or so, haven't they?

I accept what you have said regarding OWR but the Penske name is not a major one in the world of stock car racing, and hence, sadly, not a major name in the minds of most US race fans.

The difference is that Penske has been trying very hard to win a championship in NASCAR but has not done so. Right now I would rate Penske as having the 3rd best team in NASCAR. It did contend for the championship a few times during its early years and won 18 races during a span of two seasons in the early 90's. It was lucky to have one of NASCAR's greatest drivers, Rusty Wallace, behind the wheel of its original car (Penske expanded to 2 cars in 1998 and 3 cars in 2004). A Penske driver has led the series in wins 3 times and had the second most wins in two other years. Penske cars have always been among the fastest in NASCAR but the Achille's heel of its NASCAR operation seems to be reliability. The NASCAR points system awards point to all finishers so those who often have mechanical failures rarely contend for the championship in NASCAR. In other series, such as F1, only good finishes are counted so a team can have several failures but still win the title by having several great runs. For instance, in NASCAR a driver who finished 15th in two races would be higher in the points standings than a driver who won 1 race but finished 35th in the other due to a mechanical failure.

I am not trying to quibble with you on this. I just wanted to explain that Penske is not considered to be that great in the US right now, which is unfortunate given his great record in OWR.

EERO · 28 Jul 2005, 17:44 (Ref:1365770)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordi

Penske is the Ferrari of North America, in some ways.

Which leaves one to wonder if there are fleets of Red rental trucks in Europe with "Ferrari Leasing" emblazoned on the side!

Old Roger was a fairly handy driver in his day and his association with Mark Donahue brought him not only great success, but the methodology to continue that success. However, it was his greta business sense that turned Roger Penske into a very wealthy man and those yellow trucks are a huge part of the equation.

IIRC, at the time Daimler Benz was rerning to F1 w/ Sauber, and racing at Indy with Penske, wasn't Roger P a board member both at Illmor and McLaren? And hasn't Penske given up his shares at mclaren, or is he still involved?

Kicking-back · 28 Jul 2005, 18:46 (Ref:1365841)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EERO

IIRC, at the time Daimler Benz was rerning to F1 w/ Sauber, and racing at Indy with Penske, wasn't Roger P a board member both at Illmor and McLaren? And hasn't Penske given up his shares at mclaren, or is he still involved?

Just to clarify, Roger Penske has never owned shares in McLaren

EERO · 29 Jul 2005, 20:04 (Ref:1366849)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Just to clarify, Roger Penske has never owned shares in McLaren

Happy to be disabused of the notion if I am wrong, but in the dim recesses of my memory I thought he had a financial association in the early 90's.

Xpunk75 · 29 Jul 2005, 17:15 (Ref:1366736)

It would have been great seeing Peneske Marborol Red racing in F1

but it didn't happen. Lets not make any IRL guys mad though lol make them think were trying to take one of their biggest teams lol Their a little touchey.

VilleneuveTracy · 28 Jul 2005, 04:56 (Ref:1365231)

What could have been...

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