Tracy and NASCAR

[macdaddy]

This really scares me. I've been hearing too much "NASCAR" talk out of Tracy lately, especially when he co-hosted WindTunnel awhile ago.

Forsythe Championship Racing has agreed to facilitate... Paul Tracy in an exploratory foray into stock car racing. Tracy will test a Richard Childress-owned stock car prior to possibly participating in a NASCAR event later this year on a weekend that does not conflict with the Champ Car season.

"Jerry Forsythe told me that I have a Champ Car ride with his team for as long as I want" said Tracy. "We have another championship or two still to win here in open wheel, but it's no secret that I've been thinking about the next phase of my racing career."

"Paul has never driven better than he's driving right now" continued Forsythe, "so I believe he has another Vanderbilt Cup or two up his sleeve before we're going to be 100% ready to see him venture off into the next chapter of his career..."

CCWS Article

[Xpunk75]

Yeah I watched him on wind-Tunnel too and herd him talk about NassCar and what I got from him was, and this is my opinion of what he was not willing to say or whatever.


Thats where the money is, but my heart is open wheel racing, but I can't race open wheel race cars till im in my late 40's so sometime in the future I'd like to get into NassCar and race till I am ready to retire and make alot of cash.


I think Paul really cares about Champ Car and will stay as long as he can but NassCar has a huge following, lots of competition, and its just something that he hasn't done yet that maybe he would like to do. I really don't think NassCar and Pauls temper will mix very well but if he wants to try, its his life but i will be sad to see him leave Champ Car, especially when his rivalry with Bourdias is really starting to heat up and Champ Car seems to be really turning its fans and even the IRL fans on.

[BootsOntheSide]

Ignoring the appalling lack of error-checking in the quoted article, NASCAR is keen to get a Canadian driver on board. From waht's been said in other threads on here, yougn Canadian drivers are targeting the junior stock car championships, and having someone like Paul in there could be a great force for that, and a great attraction for a Canadian race. If Paul does do a couple of races this year it doesn't have to be bad thing - firstly he may spend a number of years doing the odd Nextel race before making a full-on Rookie attack, and also, think of the promotional advantage of the series name being used frequently to explain to NASCAR viewers who this guy is.

[Kicking-back]

We hear this every year, and he hasn't quit ChampCar yet.

[Mosport67]

Apparently he will test in Michigan and then race in 3 weeks time

http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/nascar/18567/

[enemy-ace]

Interesting that it is going to be on an oval. Granted he is probably the best suited Canadian for an oval, but I thought he would have made his NASCAR debut on a road-course. This will be a good indicator for him as to what the competition is REALLY all about in NASCAR.

[TedN]

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

Interesting that it is going to be on an oval. Granted he is probably the best suited Canadian for an oval, but I thought he would have made his NASCAR debut on a road-course. This will be a good indicator for him as to what the competition is REALLY all about in NASCAR.

In a recent conversation with a colleague well-versed in NASCAR, he said the following ..... "The big ovals seem to be the easiest place for a non-stock-car driver to adapt to, so Tracy’s chances of qualifying and being able to race with the field look pretty good. Erin Croker is a current example of an “outsider” driver being introduced to stock car racing via the big ovals. She had a very good run in an Evernham car at MIS in June."

Ted

[drewdawg727]

I've heard Tracy singing the Nascar tune one too many times

[Amar7605]

You know what? If he wants to go to NASCAR so badly then let him. CC does not survive on one driver. Yeah, it'll be a shame to see Paul Tracy go, but CC has some up-and-comers.

He'll just learn like Christian Fittapaldi that going to NASCAR is one thing; being successful in NASCAR is another thing.

[Mosport67]

There is a lot of difference between PT and Christian Fittipaldi. Robby Gordon has done ok and I think PT will be better than he is.

Why begrudge PT talking about NASCAR? He has to look at alternatives. If the amigos decide they need him and pony up the cash then great. If not why not look where the dollars are.

PT would be a big loss to ChampCar. He is the most identified driver and the most colourful. Sure there are others with potential but they are not there yet.

[marcus]

Derek Daly just said during the San Jose telecast that he will be testing for Richard Childress on Tuesday and is looking at the Michigan race

[luke]

Also looking at Watkins Glen.

[enemy-ace]

There is a conflict with the Glen. The Denver race is August 14th and so is the Watkins Glen race. Too bad! Seeing Tracy up against Ron Fellows would be great viewing.

[Omega99]

Tracy is a big, and I mean BIG draw for the Canadian events. It's important to have a Canadian who's regularily capable of winning, just like we need an American who can do the same.

[drewdawg727]

Originally Posted by Omega99

Tracy is a big, and I mean BIG draw for the Canadian events. It's important to have a Canadian who's regularily capable of winning, just like we need an American who can do the same.

Don't forget that Tagliani is canadian and talented as well...

[Snrub]

PT is very important to the series. I think he wants to go to Nascar before he starts to lose it in CC and thus loses his appeal to Nascar. I think he may be of the impression that he isn't as good as Bourdais and thus wants to cut his loses.

He's been more mature this year, but I wonder, is that simply because he's lost some of his passion for CC and thus he doesn't get as upset?

I'm worried because if he leaves there are fewer drivers for people in the US/Canadian markets to identify with. Keep in mind that Vasser is leaving too. AJ is having a mental meltdown.

[okeefe]

Originally Posted by Snrub

PT is very important to the series. I think he wants to go to Nascar before he starts to lose it in CC and thus loses his appeal to Nascar. I think he may be of the impression that he isn't as good as Bourdais and thus wants to cut his loses.

He's been more mature this year, but I wonder, is that simply because he's lost some of his passion for CC and thus he doesn't get as upset?

I'm worried because if he leaves there are fewer drivers for people in the US/Canadian markets to identify with. Keep in mind that Vasser is leaving too. AJ is having a mental meltdown.

I agree that he's been more mature, and I wouldn't doubt that he's lost some of his passion for CC and clearly he doesn't get as upset. I don't swallow though that he may think he's not as good as Bourdais. I am more inclined to think he's realized that Bourdais is afraid of competing with him - and perhaps PT would simply like to finish a race somewhere - and that this thing with Bourdais just may make that somewhere a place with Bourdais is not. I further think CC has let PT down in the past too. If he goes, I'd understand it, but I'd be sad for CC.

[okeefe]

Originally Posted by Snrub

PT is very important to the series. I think he wants to go to Nascar before he starts to lose it in CC and thus loses his appeal to Nascar. I think he may be of the impression that he isn't as good as Bourdais and thus wants to cut his loses.

He's been more mature this year, but I wonder, is that simply because he's lost some of his passion for CC and thus he doesn't get as upset?

I'm worried because if he leaves there are fewer drivers for people in the US/Canadian markets to identify with. Keep in mind that Vasser is leaving too. AJ is having a mental meltdown.

I am behind the times here I think - where is Vasser going? I DO hate to see him leave Champ Car - and AJ, really?

[Snrub]

On Wind Tunnel RM said that he believes that PT will go to Nascar next year. He said he thinks PT's prime motivation is money. We'll have to keep our fingers crossed that he bombs in his Nascar race(s) this season.

[Mosport67]

Originally Posted by Snrub

We'll have to keep our fingers crossed that he bombs in his Nascar race(s) this season.

I hope PT does well. If the amigos can't make it worth his while to stay why wouldn't PT look after himself by making the move.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Mosport67

If the amigos can't make it worth his while to stay why wouldn't PT look after himself by making the move.

It should not be up to the bosses of a series to hire the drivers.

[Mosport67]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It should not be up to the bosses of a series to hire the drivers.

While it shouldn't be, the reality is that the bosses of the series are also the key team owners.

A series that is trying to restore itself to its former glory needs to look at who the drivers are. This especially true with one of the leading drivers who is also a character who provides interest for the media and fans.

[enemy-ace]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It should not be up to the bosses of a series to hire the drivers.

In this case it is, considering that Forsythe is one of the amigos.
One would have to be pretty naive as well to think that the owners of a series wouldn't have some say as to which drivers get a look at any given series. Bernie knows the value of certain drivers and promotes that. The IRL has learned the value of Danica. While obviously not neccessary it wouldn't be a big shock if the series invested in her future, and I wouldn't blame them. The France family doesn't need to put any money in RCR's pocket, but considering PT's stature in Canada, you can be sure they are definitely promoting the idea of hiring PT. NASCAR is popular enough in Canada, with the addition of PT it would go through the roof. Personally for a fringe fan like myself I would probably pay closer attention to the series, and I am a diehard OW fan.
As it stands I hope PT does well. I think he'll handle the car fine, the racing will be something altogether different however.

[VilleneuveTracy]

Seeing PT, arguably the most aggressive driver on the planet, racing with fenders will be a great treat! I hope he does well (The "Tracy" in my username is for PT, it is not my name).

Erin Croker is a current example of an “outsider” driver being introduced to stock car racing via the big ovals. She had a very good run in an Evernham car at MIS in June."

Crocker was driving a cup team's equipment in a 4th-tier series. PT will be racing in inferior equipment (RCR is a mere shadow of its former self, and this comes from an Earnhardt and Harvick fan...) in stock car racing's premier series. I think PT, due to his great talent, will do well but I don't think the Crocker analogy is valid for him. I also hope that if he does move to NASCAR he gets a ride with a top-tier team. He will not contend for wins and championships on a regular basis with RCR, a team that went 0-for-3 in making the "playoffs" last season and is likely going to make that 0-for-6 after all three cars fail to qualify for the Chase this year.

With respect to the "outsider" issue, unfortunately, PT will have considerable problems for three reasons: 1) He is from OWR 2) He is a foreigner 3) Did I mention he is a foreigner? It is sad to say but NASCAR fans are far more xenophobic and racist than the general American population. These are the same people who welcomed German Dodge with open arms but went ballistic when Toyota decided to join NASCAR's third-level series. PT does have two mitigating factors in his favor, though, namely that he is driving for RCR, a popular team, especially among "old school" fans, and that he doesn't have a "funny accent."

So, yeah, they may have partly thrown stuff on the track because Jeff Gordon was leading, but not because he's an "outsider", but because lots of people simply don't like him.

One reason JG is so hated is because he is a non-Southerner. There are still many fans who believe NASCAR should remain a Southern-oriented and Southerner dominated sport. It is no coincidence that JG is disliked the most in the South and the inicident you refer to happened in the heart of the Deep South. Would that have happened at Loudon or Watkins Glen? I doubt it would have been nearly as bad at those and other non-Southern venues.

I can at least not think of any of the Gordon-haters that I know who dislike him for being an "outsider" - it's generally the fact that he came straight into a big-budget team as a rookie from the Busch Series, something that was quite uncommon back in the early 90's. Usually rookies came into the Cup Series with lesser teams and "paid their dues", and Gordon stepping up like he did was what irked a LOT of people (and also the reason he still gets called "prettyboy" or "golden boy" by quite a few anti-Gordon fans).

Those are the "official" reasons given for him being disliked but let's keep in mind that the bulk of anti-JG people are Earnhardt fans. Earnhardt came out of the minors and straight into a big-budget cup team and won a race in his rookie year and won the championship in his second year. To this day no one in NASCAR has won the title in his second season except Earnhardt. JG was winless in his rookie year, finishing a mediocore 14th in the final standings, and while he won twice in his second season, he finished a distant 8th in the standings. He didn't start dominating until his third year. I find it amusing to see Earnhardt fans, who also pull for Dale Junior, complain about JG coming into the cup series with a ride with a well-funded team.

I think the real reason JG is hated is that he not only replaced Dale Earnhardt as the dominant driver in NASCAR but utterly dominated NASCAR from 1995-1999, and arguably also in 2001. No other driver in the modern era has been able to string together a stretch, in terms of wins, that JG was able to from 1995-1999 (7, 10, 10, 13, 7 wins in each year). Success naturally attracts many people and it also breeds great dislike. JG is very popular because of his success but also very hated for it, just like DE was.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

With respect to the "outsider" issue, unfortunately, PT will have considerable problems for three reasons: 1) He is from OWR 2) He is a foreigner 3) Did I mention he is a foreigner? It is sad to say but NASCAR fans are far more xenophobic and racist than the general American population. These are the same people who welcomed German Dodge with open arms but went ballistic when Toyota decided to join NASCAR's third-level series. PT does have two mitigating factors in his favor, though, namely that he is driving for RCR, a popular team, especially among "old school" fans, and that he doesn't have a "funny accent."

The cries about Toyota are nowhere near as loud these days as they were when they first entered the Truck Series. Back then a lot of people were certain Toyota would come in with their guns blazing and outspend everyone, bringing in foreign drivers etc.

As it turns out, Toyota doesn't dominate and they enlisted popular stock-car veterans to drive for them. Not to mention the Toyota Tundra truck is more American (designed by Toyota USA and built in US factories by US citizens) than some "all-american" models (like some Chevrolets that are built in... Mexico).

As for the racism... if such a big part of the fan-base are racists, how come I know so many diehard fans that are big fans of Ron Fellows?

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

One reason JG is so hated is because he is a non-Southerner. There are still many fans who believe NASCAR should remain a Southern-oriented and Southerner dominated sport. It is no coincidence that JG is disliked the most in the South and the inicident you refer to happened in the heart of the Deep South. Would that have happened at Loudon or Watkins Glen? I doubt it would have been nearly as bad at those and other non-Southern venues.

Of course that's a big part - or was, at least. These days, with so many drivers coming in from all over the US, their homestate doesn't mean as much as it once did.

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

Those are the "official" reasons given for him being disliked but let's keep in mind that the bulk of anti-JG people are Earnhardt fans.

"Official" eh? Well, I'm not sure I'd call the actual opinions of actual fans posting on big stock car forums "official". I've been around said forums since 1996, and since that time I have gotten in touch with fans from all over the US (and the world, for that matter), both truly hardcore diehard ones as well as more 'casual' ones, with quite a few of them disliking Jeff Gordon, and I have heard lots of reasons for disliking him with coming straight into a big-budget team as a rookie being the primary one. A lack of "paying his dues" is also many times part of this dislike (relating to him coming in with RHR, as well as the fact that Gordon has yet to experience any real "hardship" in his stock car career).

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

Earnhardt came out of the minors and straight into a big-budget cup team and won a race in his rookie year and won the championship in his second year. To this day no one in NASCAR has won the title in his second season except Earnhardt. JG was winless in his rookie year, finishing a mediocore 14th in the final standings, and while he won twice in his second season, he finished a distant 8th in the standings. He didn't start dominating until his third year. I find it amusing to see Earnhardt fans, who also pull for Dale Junior, complain about JG coming into the cup series with a ride with a well-funded team.

You sum it up quite well, but you do fail to mention a lot about Earnhardt's early career.

First off he did his Winston Cup debut in 1975, and for years he was restricted to racing in the Sportsman Series while doing one-off Winston Cup starts that he more or less had to beg for. In 1976 he made two starts, one of which included him destroying a car in a violent end-over-end accident during a race at Atlanta. 1977 through 1978 he made six more starts, with limited success.

In 1979 he was asked by Rod Osterlund drive a second car him alongside Dave Marcis, but when Marcis left the team Earnhardt got the call to simply replace him. He won his first race in his 15th start, and, as you mention, managed to win the Rookie of the Year honors. What you fail to mention, however, is that Earnhardt also suffered another violent crash, this time at Pocono, which injured him badly enough that he missed four races during the season.

In 1980 he was back with Osterlund and won the title. In 1981, however, he didn't manage to win any races, and adding to that Osterlund sold the team to J.D. Stacy twenty races into the season. Stacy and Earnhardt didn't get along and Earnhardt eventually left the team before the season was over.

After a brief stint with Richard Childress towards the end of 1981, and then racing for Bud Moore in 1982 (a season which saw him have another violent crash at Pocono, this time breaking a leg) and 1983, Earnhardt teamed up with Childress once again and the rest, as they say, is history.

So while Earnhardt indeed had better results in his two first full seasons, he had to face a lot more hardship and insecurity in his early years, compared to Gordon who has been with the same mega-team his entire career without having had to worry about his ride, as well as having been fortunate enough to avoid injuries.

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

I think the real reason JG is hated is that he not only replaced Dale Earnhardt as the dominant driver in NASCAR but utterly dominated NASCAR from 1995-1999, and arguably also in 2001. No other driver in the modern era has been able to string together a stretch, in terms of wins, that JG was able to from 1995-1999 (7, 10, 10, 13, 7 wins in each year). Success naturally attracts many people and it also breeds great dislike. JG is very popular because of his success but also very hated for it, just like DE was.

It's part of it, no question about it, but it's not the sole reason but rather a combination of that and what has been mentioned earlier. And success, as you say, has always triggered boos - it's happened to Gordon, to Earnhardt and others (Darrell Waltrip in particular).

So to sum it up, those thinking there's a single, easily defined reason Gordon is disliked couldn't be more wrong.

These days Kurt Busch and Greg Biffle are more disliked than Gordon though. By far.

Ah well, enough OT from me. I for one can't wait for Tracy to make his debut (assuming he manages to qualify that is), and I'll continue to smile at those suggesting he will have a price on his head just because he happens to be an "outsider"