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24 May 2007, 12:37 (Ref:1920255) | #1 | ||
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Porsche 997 - Development Curve
We have had a very civil and interesting debate on another forum concerning the status of development of the Porsche 997 vis a vis the Ferrari 430 GT.
It was so interesting (to me) that I thought I’d start a debate here. The question is whether Porsche is just lagging behind in the “development curve” in relation to the Ferrari, or whether Porsche got its figures wrong when designing the 997. |
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24 May 2007, 12:39 (Ref:1920256) | #2 | ||
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24 May 2007, 12:45 (Ref:1920259) | #3 | |
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More to the point Ferrari is a year ahead - they have more data on the car than POrsche have so the Ferrari should still be ahead. Porsche may be slightly ahead on their particular curve but because Ferrari have a years extra work they still appear to be ahead !!
You would expect POrsche to have caught up by the end of the year i would think. And yes the engine is in the wrong place |
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24 May 2007, 12:56 (Ref:1920267) | #4 | |
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I think Porsche might shine at Le Mans, but on other tracks the Ferrari will stay ahead all because of superior weight distributions. I suspect the Porsche GT2 domination days are over. The only real solution would be to base their next GT2 on Cayman
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24 May 2007, 13:01 (Ref:1920273) | #5 | ||
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24 May 2007, 13:22 (Ref:1920286) | #6 | |||
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The Altzen brothers have done some development of their own on the Cayman, and have a project to “squeeze” the Carrera GT V10 into their car. http://66.249.91.104/translate_c?hl=...006-18,GGGL:en Warning: Car is also excellent to look at! |
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24 May 2007, 13:29 (Ref:1920288) | #7 | ||
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The Porsche is nice to drive.
Well most of you think that Ferrari have had a year head start, but that is not true. Porsche did not race their 997 last year (except the Spa 24 hours), but they did a hell of alot of testing. Porsche will not like being beat and will soon correct this problem and bring out an updated kit for the 997 flaws. The ferrari is very good at fast corners and on the brakes. I hope that we get on the pace of the Ferrari soon, because I want to beat those Italian buckets |
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2009 Porsche Supercup & LMS & FIA GT & VLN --- 2008 Porsche Supercup & FIA GT & VLN --- 2007 FIA GT --- 2006 FIA GT3 --- 2005 British GT |
24 May 2007, 14:07 (Ref:1920308) | #8 | |||
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As you can tell, I am a Porsche fanatic. I can not begin to tell you guys how much it pains me to see the 997 being so uncompetitive (more so in the ALMS). I have grown up always having a Porsche in the household (more than 47 years) and most of my life it has been a 911 (in one form or the other). I'm not trying to be negative, but it this has not been an auspicious start, and it's certainly not what we (I) expect from Porsche. Is 1 second just too much of a gain to expect from development in the near future? Is not the problem also that the 6 cylinder engine is nearing the upper most regions of its full potential. (in its atmospheric state)? As for the new kit, I know you can’t say too much about it, but when are you expecting to get it? Please report back on testing (if you can) Porsche and their drivers are always in my thoughts! - Go For It! Last edited by Spyderman; 24 May 2007 at 14:09. |
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24 May 2007, 14:33 (Ref:1920318) | #9 | |||
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24 May 2007, 14:43 (Ref:1920328) | #10 | ||
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24 May 2007, 14:47 (Ref:1920332) | #11 | |||
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24 May 2007, 14:41 (Ref:1920325) | #12 | ||
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With the Porsche takeover of Volkswagon Group there hasn't been as much money for developing the 997 considering that the money that is availibe has also gone to develop the RS Spyder which will probably help them reach their goal of an LMP1 dominating car.
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24 May 2007, 15:00 (Ref:1920343) | #13 | ||
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The VAG stocks were mainly bought by cash reserve. I doubt this influenced Porsche Motorsport in any way. |
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24 May 2007, 15:06 (Ref:1920346) | #14 | ||||
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24 May 2007, 15:07 (Ref:1920347) | #15 | |||
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24 May 2007, 15:15 (Ref:1920349) | #16 | |||
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German law forces a takeover bid by the shareholder if they purchase 30% (or more) of the shares. Porsche have made that bid (at very low prices per share as they were never interested in buying out VAG) and the bid has been rejected. |
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24 May 2007, 15:42 (Ref:1920361) | #17 | |||
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Your right, thanks... too many meds today.. sorry. |
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2 Jun 2007, 02:52 (Ref:1926655) | #18 | |
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"The reliability is good on the RSR," Bergmeister said. "We haven't had any issues so far. The last couple of years we always have had an advantage on straight-line speed. This is not the case now. But our car can handle quicker in the corners we think than the Ferrari. It won't be easy. What you need in a 24-hour race is luck."
- Jörg Bergmeister http://www.americanlemans.com/News/Article.aspx?ID=3234 |
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2 Jun 2007, 12:27 (Ref:1926829) | #19 | |||
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But getting back to the straight line speed issue: This is the crux of the mater. The 6 cylinder has already been so refined over the years, that one wonders what quick fix (within the rules) Porsche can find to improve on power. Apparently the maximum optimum displacement for the 6 cylinder is 3.8L, and an 8 cylinder alternative is out of the question. Improving the aero is a possible solution, but it has been made more difficult due to the wider body and tires. If they go back to the “skinnier” tires and narrower body of the 996, they loose the 997 cornering abilities. |
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2 Jun 2007, 02:47 (Ref:1926654) | #20 | ||
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autoweek.com: June 1, 2005 Contrary to hints of a lightweight racing version of the new Boxster-based mid-engined Cayman coupe (AW, May 30), Porsche research and development officials in Weissach insist there is no club sport or stripped-for-racing Cayman in the works. "The racing edge of Porsche is, and will remain, the 911," said chief engineer Wolfgang Durheimer. "No production car will supplant it anytime soon. There is no plan for a Cayman intended for racing at any level." The 2006 Cayman S is powered by a new 3.4-liter version of Porsche's horizontally opposed six, generating 295 hp, or 15 more than the current Boxster S. The Cayman S will be the high-trim, top-output coupe variant. Another Cayman in development - a standard model with less equipment than that of the S - is likely to be powered by a 3.0-liter, 260-hp boxer six. That version may not go on sale for more than a year after the launch of the Cayman S. Cayman S debuts at the Frankfurt motor show this fall and goes on sale in the United States by spring 2006. |
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31 Jul 2007, 10:39 (Ref:1977080) | #21 | |||
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24 May 2007, 16:26 (Ref:1920390) | #22 | |
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Back on topic.
Looking at the pace of Risi in ALMS, I would be amased if Porsche can challenge Ferrari by just releasing an update. It is my impression that the fundamental design choices Porsche made (namely higher weight for wider tires) and of course bad position of the engine (inherent to the 911) don't for for the ALMS circuits. |
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24 May 2007, 17:24 (Ref:1920442) | #23 | |||
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L.P. |
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24 May 2007, 17:32 (Ref:1920450) | #24 | |||
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What I find strange is that Porsche seems not to have done the math (as thoroughly as they should have) before opting for that design. They obviously underestimated the Ferrari’s potential, and that is very unlike Porsche. As for the rear engine format, besides the obvious disadvantages, it is also limiting in that it does not allow for an 8 cylinder engine to be placed there. I am however, interested to see what solution they come up with....and they will. They are Porsche... and there is no substitute. |
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24 May 2007, 17:12 (Ref:1920433) | #25 | ||
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Le mans is Porsche's stomping ground and I would be very surprised to see their 997 beaten there .
Im also a little biased towards Porsche ..... always cheer for them . But at the end of the day , a great battle is what counts the most . Im sure they have pulled out all the stops for LM and have a few weapons lined up for the race ..... one being called Norbert Singer !!! Has anyone found a betting shop at Le Mans , ive always wanted to have a flutter on the race ? |
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