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3 Sep 2007, 16:26 (Ref:2002779) | #1 | |||
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Do we need "Touring cars" in GT racing??
A comment from the GTx-thread reminded me of a problem I have been thinking about lately. In order to don't distract the original thread, I'll post my thought here.
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I doubt it, because car makers like Aston Martin, Ferrari or Lambo only appeal to the very rich and wealthy. So for these companies there's no real need to promote their name towards a wider audience, and I think this is one of the problems GT-racing suffers from, nowadays. Granted, there are already manufacturers in GT-racing that have a bit of a broader appeal like Corvette or Porsche, but this doesn't seem enough to create a GT-series with a wide mainstream appeal. So I wonder if a reglement that allowed the sportier cars of the big manufacturers (like Ford Mustangs, Nissan 350Z, Mazda RX8, or Mercedes CLK) into GT racing would have a bigger potential in the mainstream media. What are your thoughts on that issue and how could that be achieved rules-wise? Last edited by Speed-King; 3 Sep 2007 at 16:32. |
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3 Sep 2007, 16:46 (Ref:2002800) | #2 | ||
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well, i think there's a couple of things which could be done,but at the same time, first those manufacturers would have to want to campaign GT cars.
i think that if nissan came to its senses and ran the upcoming GT-R in competition, then the first thing would be to ensure that turbo-charged cars have a fair shake in GT1. at the present time, they don't, and so there's little point in running the GT-R (since it wouldn't be likely to fit in the class structure in a lower class, and nissan might not want to run it in one). additionally, lexus will have a new GT next year, and at some point down the road, honda will also have an NSX replacement (possibly). i think that if very strong efforts were made to ensure that super gt rules were the same as fia and aco gt rules, then these cars would have a much better chance of being raced, and the brands behind them are much more promotionally minded. but at the same time, i think the high end manufacturers do have an incentive to race, as it adds aura and respect for the brand. aston martin's new cars have a lot more credibility after their GT racing efforts, and the ferrari and porsche brands names have all their mystique because of their racing history (and in particular, the lengthy histories they have). and corvette has certainly added some image with the success they've had in gt1. and the new bugatti, koenigsegg, and pagani offerings, while nice are certainly not quite as cool in my eyes simply because they don't have this history of success. as for the specific models you mentioned, they can and already do race in FIA GT4/Grand-Am Koni Challenge/Super Taikyu to an extent... |
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3 Sep 2007, 17:28 (Ref:2002837) | #3 | |||||
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I got this whole idea about "touring-style cars" in GT racing while reading some stuff about the late 70s DRM and Worldchampionship of makes, where the Zakspeed Capris or the BMW 320s challenged the Porsche 935s. At the same time we had a similar situation stateside, where the Chevy Monzas took on the 935s. I think it would be interesting to see a current version of these battles and cars... Last edited by Speed-King; 3 Sep 2007 at 17:34. |
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3 Sep 2007, 17:39 (Ref:2002844) | #4 | ||
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what you're talking about though, are silhouette cars rather than unibody gt cars, and it appears there is a move away from silhouette cars due to their lack of production relevance and the extreme costs which can result from having an extremely open rules format.
there is the DTM, and the GT500 cars in Super GT are decidedly silhouette in nature (and Grand-Am's Prep 2 rules in GT are a slower silhouette formula), however the current trend in global gt rules is away from this type of race car. i think that the current ideas surrounding the possible 2010 rules for LMP coupes are closer to what you're thinking of. the idea of seeing "everyman's" performance cars going at it with the big boys is appealing to fans, but less so to manufacturers, especially the premium brands who would not wish to see their image diluted by association (and possible losses to) more down market machinery. they would likely not participate, and so you'd be left with only the lower brands (and thereby losing some of the appeal of sports car racing for some fans)... |
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3 Sep 2007, 19:53 (Ref:2002965) | #5 | ||||
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While the "inspiration" for my idea comes from the 70s, I think it is possible to realize it with the methods of today. Just take the BMW M3 GTR for example. I think an approach like this might enable the performance cars of today to compete with purebred GT cars. Maybe a rule that allowed every production engine of the respective company as a base for the race engine would be a good idea to avoid silly homologation specials for the performance car based machines. Quote:
Actually it is already happening today to a certain extent with the Corvettes taking on and beating the Astons, Massas and Lambos and I don't see anybody complain about this. I can however see people complaining about an Aston losing against an Mazda RX8. This truly would be a serious problem. Maybe different classes for the performance and the supercars are a possibility to avoid this. |
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3 Sep 2007, 16:47 (Ref:2002801) | #6 | |
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The likes of Ratel believe poster cars from Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini etc will bring in the punters.
Experience shows well promoted series backed by major, mainstream manufactuers is the way to go. Audi, Peugeot, Acura, Nissan, Mazda etc. can run protoypes, and their marketing spend will ensure the public are aware of their racing programs. You only need look to the UK today, there is currently a very high profile Peugeot 908 TV and a new Audi R10/Shell radio ad, when was the last time you saw a similar ad from a niche GT manufactuer? It's no coincidence these ad's are for diesel cars, I can imagine we'll see plenty of ad's in future years from manufactuers running hybrids and alternative fueled cars, as they're relevant to major manufactuers road car markets. Last edited by JAG; 3 Sep 2007 at 16:50. |
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3 Sep 2007, 17:05 (Ref:2002821) | #7 | ||
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Certainly not ..... if i want touring cars , i can watch the BTCC and die from boredom !!!
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3 Sep 2007, 18:11 (Ref:2002869) | #8 | |||
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on the thing of seeing more everyday car's in the GT1 and GT2 class there was a GT2 spec nissan 350Z campaigned by RJN ltd but it was a pile of poop compared to the porsche's and ferrari's. i think the car's that could fit into GT2 from big manufacturer's are as follows: current car's nissan 350Z porsche 911 GT3 ferrari F430 panoz esperante GTLM spyker C8 GTR supposed car's imo mazda RX8 porsche cayman S audi R8 aston martin V8 vantage BMW M3 E92 i think is the series designation for the new car mazda RX8 maserati gransport audi A5 mercedes CLK mercedes SLK audi TT for GT1 i dont think there are many mainstream car's i can think of that would fit in, probably only the BMW M6 and mercedes mclaren SLR and price wise they are hardly mainstream, but brandwise BMW are certainly very mainstream especially in the UK, mercedes not so much as BMW in the UK. |
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3 Sep 2007, 17:59 (Ref:2002861) | #9 | |||
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Speed World Touring has Mazda 3s, Audi A4s, 350zs, Acura TSs, Chevy Colbalts, BMW M3s and the like. Watching these cars at a race is great, but on TV they just look slow. |
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3 Sep 2007, 19:39 (Ref:2002946) | #10 | ||
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Touringcars NO NO NO NO,
BUT, imho Touringcars are 4 door Saloons GT cars are 2 door rear wheel driven cars. So a 350Z and a Mustang are perfectly alowed for GT racing So that leaves out the 2 door front wheel driven coupe's which belong in no class what so ever, (these cars are pointless anyway) We can discuss this as long as you want but in the end it's the thruth. |
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5 Sep 2007, 16:03 (Ref:2004394) | #11 | |||
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3 Sep 2007, 23:44 (Ref:2003151) | #12 | |
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There's supposedly going to be a Mercedes GT2, not a manufacturer but a privateer, and Doran has said the Ford GT GT2 programme is going along well.
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4 Sep 2007, 05:16 (Ref:2003232) | #13 | ||
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Those G2 teams haven't appeared and I doubt they will now, more fodder for The Bear.
We do have some interesting things happening in the market which always has an effect on the racing. Toyota, Nissan and Honda are about the battle it out on the premium GT car front. As mentioned, you have the new Lexus GT car, Nissan GT-R (formerly Skyline GT-R) and front engined Honda NSX replacement. All will have either turbocharged engines or fairly large displacement V8 and V10 engines. Wherever Honda is, Toyota is never far behind and Toyota and Nissan have butted heads here in America more than once, so there's a chance you'll see that again. That's why I say not to scrap the current GT1 regs just yet and there's always BMW looming as they want back "in" but only if it makes sense. Also now that Benz is separated from Chrysler chances you'll see a Merc sportscar or GT car isn't as remote as it was maybe a year ago. It also looks like Dodge isn't happy with the way SCCA runs WC and might elect to move "upmarket" in their Competition Coupe racing program. I sure they like they idea that they have sold every Comp Coupe built and if they built a GT2 spec car with help from Orcea, it would sell well and they wouldn't need to field a factory ran team, just give technical support like Porsche and Ferrari do. As I have always said the ALMS is on the verge of some BIG moves here, we'll see if the domino's fall our way |
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4 Sep 2007, 16:23 (Ref:2003668) | #14 | |
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That Mercedes GT2 is not going to happen. Look for it as a prep 2 in Rolex though... at least, that's the intention now...
pit |
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