Intercontinental GT Challenge

[Mike E]

Not sure pre-qualifying is strictly necessary but you can watch it if you are at a loose end on Friday.

https://twitter.com/IntercontGTC/sta...s36Kq4_qA&s=19

[tux]

I guess all that is to be decided is which AMG will win

[Ferrari333SP]

They got the BoP absolutely spot on for this race; all the top cars are running essentially the same times, leading to some fantastic racing so far. BMW's still in the lead, but not running away with it. Mercs having to fight for places now as well

[tux]

Not sure whats going on with this Gruppe M #999 car. At the Gulf 12 hours they had a problem with the engine, all through practice for this event in Kyalami it had electrical problems, they then lost the radio in the race and finally had gearbox problems. Normally bulletproof cars

[JimboCycling]

A bit late to this but nonetheless...
At Bathurst, I understood that GruppeM were allowed to simultaneously refuel and change tyres in their last pit stop. I think the modem change was also done at the same time.

I would see two possible scenarios;
1. Doing fuel then tyres takes less time than than the modem change. In this case, the modem change is the limiting factor, so allowing fuel and tyres simultaneously makes no difference.
2. Doing fuel then tyres takes more time than than the modem change. In this case, fuel and tyres should have been the limiting factor, so being allowed to do them simultaneously gave GruppeM an advantage relative to a normal pit stop.

Does anyone know which of these it was, or if I'm missing something?

[NaBUru38]

This weekend it's the Gulf 12 Hours.

[deggis]

5 Pro cars, not great.

Pro-Am and Am are more plentiful.

https://www.gulf12hours.com/entry-list

[E.B]

Good to see Kenny Habul back in action with the Sun Energy Merc following his back breaking crash at the Spa 24 hrs earlier this year.

[FIRE]

Are there people really interested in IGTC?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Are there people really interested in IGTC?

I'm interested in some of the events. Bathurst, Spa. I don't care about Indy or Abu Dhabi

[NaBUru38]

Manufacturers don't seem to be interested in the Gulf 12 Hours, so the race was dropped for 2024.

With the Nürburgring 24h added for 2024, I think that manufacturers will be more interested.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm interested in some of the events. Bathurst, Spa. I don't care about Indy or Abu Dhabi

I am also interested in Bathurst 12h, Spa 24h and Nurburgring 24h but this is not because of IGTC. Without IGTC these races still have a big grid. For Bathurst it helps to get more international entries, but it's not the reason for the succes.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Are there people really interested in IGTC?

People, as in fans? In the whole (or majority) of the IGTC? Very few I would assume.

But there is enough fan interest in the main events - Bathurst, Spa - to just about prop up the rest of the series and make it appealing to enough teams to enter. However, it has been clear that it will not be enough going forward, and for all of SRO's faults, they don't shirk the big issues.

The 2024 calendar changes (Nurburgring in, Kyalami & Abu Dhabi out) are a step in the "right" direction to manufacture interest in the whole series, now that three out of four of its races are genuine crowd-pleasers and should therefore attract high-quality (and well-backed) entrants. It's similar, albeit not as pronounced, as the WEC/Le Mans dilemma the ACO have been wrangling with, to some success recently.

[1969MGCGTdriver]

Originally Posted by J Jay

People, as in fans? In the whole (or majority) of the IGTC? Very few I would assume.

But there is enough fan interest in the main events - Bathurst, Spa - to just about prop up the rest of the series and make it appealing to enough teams to enter. However, it has been clear that it will not be enough going forward, and for all of SRO's faults, they don't shirk the big issues.

The 2024 calendar changes (Nurburgring in, Kyalami & Abu Dhabi out) are a step in the "right" direction to manufacture interest in the whole series, now that three out of four of its races are genuine crowd-pleasers and should therefore attract high-quality (and well-backed) entrants. It's similar, albeit not as pronounced, as the WEC/Le Mans dilemma the ACO have been wrangling with, to some success recently.

Why not drop Indy and run the American race at Sebring in March? WEC dropped out so there is an opening. That would put them in front of an absolutely massive crowd (most of which have probably never heard of IGTC) and get more eyes on the series. It would look better on TV as well.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by 1969MGCGTdriver

Why not drop Indy and run the American race at Sebring in March? WEC dropped out so there is an opening. That would put them in front of an absolutely massive crowd (most of which have probably never heard of IGTC) and get more eyes on the series. It would look better on TV as well.

Mostly the difficulty in freight from NSW in Australia to the east coast of the USA in a relatively short time frame. While there could be five weeks between both races (assuming Sebring is on the last weekend of March), you can knock at least a week off for packing and unpacking at either end.

Additionally, to borrow a phrase from RLM, "date equity" comes into play as well. Especially given the effort (and cash) Penske has put in to promoting Indianapolis, having a secure date year-on-year is paramount.

[NaBUru38]

Sebring is controlled by IMSA, so that won't ever happen.

[Alan52]

Have to think that both the IGTC and the Bathurst 12 Hour are at the end of the road.
The Bathurst entry is 22 cars
-6 from overseas.5 GT and 1 Invitational
-10 Australian GT3 cars of which 8 are Mercs
-6 Australian grid fillers.3 GT4 and 3 MARCS
That is really lame and so far away from the golden years of 2015 to 2020 it doesn’t seem like the same event.
Ratel has said they needed to get back to 15-20 international cars to make the series viable.After last years 29 car field with 5 overseas cars he was confident we’d get there.Instead this.
Once that meagre international component goes you are left with what is nearly a one make 10 car GT field.
For those golden years the 12 Hour was my second favourite Australian motor racing event behind only Albert Park.Now it feels like it needs to be put down and out of its misery.
Given the way Ratel has binned IGTC rounds with much stronger fields than this -see Abu Dhabi- I am looking at this year as my final chance to see any international GT teams.

[Racing Harz]

Not all participants for the 12h BAthurst have been announced yet. There will be a few more top vehicles.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Have to think that both the IGTC and the Bathurst 12 Hour are at the end of the road.
The Bathurst entry is 22 cars
-6 from overseas.5 GT and 1 Invitational
-10 Australian GT3 cars of which 8 are Mercs
-6 Australian grid fillers.3 GT4 and 3 MARCS
That is really lame and so far away from the golden years of 2015 to 2020 it doesn’t seem like the same event.
Ratel has said they needed to get back to 15-20 international cars to make the series viable.After last years 29 car field with 5 overseas cars he was confident we’d get there.Instead this.
Once that meagre international component goes you are left with what is nearly a one make 10 car GT field.
For those golden years the 12 Hour was my second favourite Australian motor racing event behind only Albert Park.Now it feels like it needs to be put down and out of its misery......

That is a bit sad. I was expecting / hoping for a greater International support given we no longer have to deal with Covid complications.

I have to, given the entries and support as above, agree with the prognosis for the event, and that is not good. Also one of my favourite events.

Edit: Just noticed after posting, the comment re a few entries still in the wings. Fingers crossed, but even with that hope it still looks a bit grim.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Racing Harz

Not all participants for the 12h BAthurst have been announced yet. There will be a few more top vehicles.

Not sure “ a few more top vehicles “ will do anything.
Well maybe if it was a plane load of Pro entries from AF Corse,Manthey,Abt and Frickadelli.That’s not happening.In the 2 weeks since WRT announced and supposedly then more was imminent all we’ve had is news of 2 Garage 59 McLarens turning the boat around and going back to Europe.

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Have to think that both the IGTC and the Bathurst 12 Hour are at the end of the road.
The Bathurst entry is 22 cars
-6 from overseas.5 GT and 1 Invitational
-10 Australian GT3 cars of which 8 are Mercs
-6 Australian grid fillers.3 GT4 and 3 MARCS
That is really lame and so far away from the golden years of 2015 to 2020 it doesn’t seem like the same event.
Ratel has said they needed to get back to 15-20 international cars to make the series viable.After last years 29 car field with 5 overseas cars he was confident we’d get there.Instead this.
Once that meagre international component goes you are left with what is nearly a one make 10 car GT field.
For those golden years the 12 Hour was my second favourite Australian motor racing event behind only Albert Park.Now it feels like it needs to be put down and out of its misery.
Given the way Ratel has binned IGTC rounds with much stronger fields than this -see Abu Dhabi- I am looking at this year as my final chance to see any international GT teams.

The issue with Bathrust is that is very close to Asian Le Mans Series which guarantees the invitation to Le Mans - I expect more teams would prioritise that and for teams from Europe is easier to travel to middle east than all the way to Australia. Look how healthy the entry list is for the Asian Le mans Series. Furthermore some of these teams are already in the Middle East for the Creventic Series. The truncated AsLMS season in Feb has affected Bathurst

Also if I am not mistaken, the WEC prologue is the week after Bathurst this year? Meaning even WEC teams that are not in AsLMS find it difficult to do Bathurst and then be back to Qatar.


Mind you I do not mind a small entry list for Bathurst if the entry is quality! Too many cars could lead to too many saftey car periods which break the flow of racing. There is a balance between too many and too little entries. I am just not sure what that is

Also finally a lot of new GT3s this year that are not yet SRO homologated - so maybe once the Corvette, Mustang, Aston get homologated there might be more entries for next year

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

The issue with Bathrust is that is very close to Asian Le Mans Series which guarantees the invitation to Le Mans - I expect more teams would prioritise that and for teams from Europe is easier to travel to middle east than all the way to Australia. Look how healthy the entry list is for the Asian Le mans Series. Furthermore some of these teams are already in the Middle East for the Creventic Series. The truncated AsLMS season in Feb has affected Bathurst

Also if I am not mistaken, the WEC prologue is the week after Bathurst this year? Meaning even WEC teams that are not in AsLMS find it difficult to do Bathurst and then be back to Qatar.


Mind you I do not mind a small entry list for Bathurst if the entry is quality! Too many cars could lead to too many saftey car periods which break the flow of racing. There is a balance between too many and too little entries. I am just not sure what that is

Also finally a lot of new GT3s this year that are not yet SRO homologated - so maybe once the Corvette, Mustang, Aston get homologated there might be more entries for next year

The timing of the race isn’t going to change.It will always be in February.There isn’t a window where other GT racing will not be happening.
Australia is a long way away and that’s not going to change either.
There may be new cars homologated for 2025 I doubt this will mean an influx of international Pro entries which is what this race needs.
As far as ideal grid numbers I have been at every Bathurst 12 Hour -even the 8 Production Car ones - and small grid sizes of around 20 cars on a 6K+ circuit gets very old very quickly in a 12 Hour race.
Edit.Just following up on your WEC point WRT are running a 2 car team at Bathurst with their WEC drivers.Supposedly the date was chosen after consultation with international teams to increase their participation.
Being so negative gives me no pleasure.Like I posted above from 2015 to 2020 it was my favourite Australian event outside of Albert Park.I just can’t be part of the “everything’s wonderful all the time “ crowd.

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by Alan52

The timing of the race isn’t going to change.It will always be in February.There isn’t a window where other GT racing will not be happening.
Australia is a long way away and that’s not going to change either.
There may be new cars homologated for 2025 I doubt this will mean an influx of international Pro entries which is what this race needs.
As far as ideal grid numbers I have been at every Bathurst 12 Hour -even the 8 Production Car ones - and small grid sizes of around 20 cars on a 6K+ circuit gets very old very quickly in a 12 Hour race.
Edit.Just following up on your WEC point WRT are running a 2 car team at Bathurst with their WEC drivers.Supposedly the date was chosen after consultation with international teams to increase their participation.
Being so negative gives me no pleasure.Like I posted above from 2015 to 2020 it was my favourite Australian event outside of Albert Park.I just can’t be part of the “everything’s wonderful all the time crowd”.

Unfortunatelly I do not see when else can Bathurst hold the race other than Feb. The big grids were before 2021 when AsLMS moved to this February Schedule and it is interesting that SRO is co-organising that championship with ACO. Maybe they will find a way of moving AsLMS to a more traditional Nov-Feb calendar and not be reliant on the Middle East(I am sure a lot of European teams are all for the Feb Middle East schedule as it allows them to participate and is cheaper). This might open up potential entries for Bathurst

As for WRT - I am sure the cars they have in Bahturst are not the same ones for WEC so maybe they are in transit now but the WEC cars are all good to go for Qatar

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

Unfortunatelly I do not see when else can Bathurst hold the race other than Feb. The big grids were before 2021 when AsLMS moved to this February Schedule and it is interesting that SRO is co-organising that championship with ACO. Maybe they will find a way of moving AsLMS to a more traditional Nov-Feb calendar and not be reliant on the Middle East(I am sure a lot of European teams are all for the Feb Middle East schedule as it allows them to participate and is cheaper). This might open up potential entries for Bathurst

As for WRT - I am sure the cars they have in Bahturst are not the same ones for WEC so maybe they are in transit now but the WEC cars are all good to go for Qatar

Agree with what you’re saying.
Unfortunately Bathurst doesn’t have time to wait for possible solutions.It has been 4 years since the last quality field Bathurst 12 Hour and if SRO prioritised the race they would have done something by now.
Guessing the life support will be turned off shortly.

[Alan52]

Story posted on event web site yesterday saying that when the final entry list is announced next week it will be considerably larger than 2023.We are currently 7 cars down so that suggests an extra 12-15 new cars.Seems improbable but we will see.