Pigs seen at Heathrow... Protestant Pope revealed... Crozier74 to buy new computer...

[crozier74]

No, ladies and gents, your eyes don't deceive you. After years of struggling by with my good ol' faithful 333 MHz Pentium 2 "computer" (paperweight), it now finally looks as if I may be wandering my way out of the dark ages. Dad has now cracked - he's realised that the whole family sharing this one is impractical, and that it's way too far behind for my purposes, and is finally looking to buy a new computer for my bedroom. I've had a look around the offers from Dell, and a few take my fancy, but before I commit I've got to nail what I actually want from a new PC. So I'm here to bounce ideas off of ya, and hopefully get some advice/recommendations/etc. Right, so...

Budget: ~£600
Clock speed: 2.8-3.0 GHz (should last me for a few years, right?)
Graphics card: ATI Radeon or GeForce?
Memory: 256 or 512 MB?
Memory speed: Heard from Paul Thurston on RSC it's quite important for GPL
Hard drive space: 120 GB
Monitor: Flat screen (groovy... )
Sound card: Again, nae a clue bout this area. Any suggestions?

Think that's about everything. Then again, it's late and I'm getting tired, so probably not Sound good/bad/indifferent? At all realistic for the budget? Any potential problem areas I might encounter gaming-wise? GPL, NASCAR 2003 and F1C will probably be the mainstays, and (if I get broadband) a lot of music downloads and other stuff as well.

'Tis indeed exciting times in the Crozier household...

[pirenzo]

For GPL avoid SoundBlaster Live! sound cards, and to be on the safe side go for GeForce.

[Mackmot]

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/sto...fm=0&sm=0&tm=1

Thats the more up to date version of mine. I think Compaq are very good and reliable and although most of the staff in PC World are dim they do fix things very quickly and free if they actually go wrong.

[Kidzer]

I would say get PC2700 DDR SDRAM, good compromise between speed and cost IMO, definetley 512Mb again, IMO

I would say go for an ATi Radeon 9800SE if you have the budget, they can be 'softmodded' to the speeds of a 9800Pro which was up until the new series of ATi Cards (X800 etc) the best card around..
..I'm sure someone will correct me on that if im speaking rubbish

[pirenzo]

Well, the thing is with some of the games mentioned (well, specifically the two papyrus sims, GPL and NASCAR 2003) throw a wobbly at certain ATi cards. I think the 9800 is alright, and likewise the 9200, as I've seen people report no problems on them, but the rest I'm not so sure about.

I think either will do for other games

[mjolnir]

give www.aria.co.uk a go. they have some pretty good deals like the weekly specials (got my refurbished A-grade 21" P1130 for less than 1/2 the price of a brand new one, for example... oh so soooo sweet...).

Wouldn't read too much into being on the safe side with GeForce - them ATi's have a much better driver support than the older ATi's. Can't go wrong with a nice 9800! (aria.co.uk has specials on the 9600XT 128Mb and 9600 256Mb versions atm). If in doubt, check out Tom's Hardware AGP Charts.

Definitely should be thinking about 512MB-1GB, RAM-wise

[rdjones]

Originally Posted by Mackmot

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/sto...fm=0&sm=0&tm=1

Thats the more up to date version of mine. I think Compaq are very good and reliable and although most of the staff in PC World are dim they do fix things very quickly and free if they actually go wrong.

That's machine I bought a few months ago, and I can highly recommend it.

[crozier74]

Thanks guys, tonnes of good advice here so far

Think I've just about narrowed it down to 2, either the one Mackmot mentioned or this one from Dell.

One or two wee things I'm unsure about the two:

Dell
* ATi card. GeForce adds ~£225.

Compaq
* No soundcard included. The Intel High Definition Audio 7.1 mentioned sounds good though, but why do they mention it if it's not included?
* No speakers included.
* No monitor included (as far as I can see).

Depends how much those 3 will cost to add to the Compaq, but it's too close to call ATM. Thoughts?

[crozier74]

Also worth mentioning, Dad says I need a wireless connection, cos, like P, he aint having cables all over the house. This kinda worries me, given P's well-documented problems with online racing. Is this inherent in all wireless connections, or just his?

[pirenzo]

I don't know to be honest.

Since I now have a wireless PC card in my laptop now I went for a tour of the house with it constantly pinging google, and the nearer I got to the wireless router the fewer timeouts I got, until in the hallway on the other side of the wall from the router I had no timeouts at all...

It seems that the further away you get (and I'm only perhaps 6-7 metres straight line distance away upstairs and in the opposite corner from the router) the worse it becomes. In the garden at the back of the house the connection doesn't work at all...

[Spudgun]

Originally Posted by crozier74

Also worth mentioning, Dad says I need a wireless connection, cos, like P, he aint having cables all over the house. This kinda worries me, given P's well-documented problems with online racing. Is this inherent in all wireless connections, or just his?

I use a wireless connection for my laptop and xbox and I don't get any problems. pirenzo's problem is a strange one!

If you are going to do a wireless setup may I suggest a Linksys router. I have a Linksys WRT54G and think it is fantastic.

[Kidzer]

Are you definetley buying, building one can sometimes work out cheaper and be a more satisfying way to get a PC, when I have the money thats what i'm doing

[pirenzo]

Originally Posted by crozier74

Thanks guys, tonnes of good advice here so far

Think I've just about narrowed it down to 2, either the one Mackmot mentioned or this one from Dell.

One or two wee things I'm unsure about the two:

Dell
* ATi card. GeForce adds ~£225.

Compaq
* No soundcard included. The Intel High Definition Audio 7.1 mentioned sounds good though, but why do they mention it if it's not included?
* No speakers included.
* No monitor included

The Compaq must have integrated sound, as opposed to a separate soundcard. Doesn't mean you get no sound!
Since you're buying a PC, you're probably better off getting the ATi since its cheaper, and you'll just have to spend a while trying out different drivers (the latest set out are supposed to be good) and/or hope its OK on its own.

[Kidzer]

If you do get an ATi, I found the best performing standard drivers to be 4.11, a lot of people said 4.12 though, I use omega drivers now thouh

[Dani Filth]

for games and music get a proper sound card . and forget the onboard

graphic card . i use a Asus Radeon 9550GE . works very good in GPL
as kidzer says . omega
don't get a 9800SE unless you are sure it can be soft-modded
Ram . PC3200 .. 512 at least ..

CPU .. you can go Intel route or AMD route .
AMD64 processors are quite powerfull and have x64 support that only newer Inter CPU support .. well. almost no software is written now for x64 . but the future is x64

Hard Drive .. if you aren't into lots of music and video's . 80 should be enough .. although the differences to a 120GB or even 160 are very small

try getting a DVD-RW . a LG4163 should be around 50 euros .

[crozier74]

Right, I'm still heading towards this Dell Dimension 8400 (albeit this week's version now), and have accepted that it's gonna have an ATi in it.

Just two last real questions:

Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS

Current machine as standard comes without soundcard, and this is the only option (for an additional £64.63). Are there any problems I might encounter with this card?

I'd like to have 1024MB RAM instead of the current 512MB, as that's what last week's offer had, but I don't fancy the extra ~£120. It shouldn't be too much of a problem to have 512 should it?

[pirenzo]

512 will be fine

BTW, with your wireless, get Linksys hardware NOT Belkin (which I believe is cheaper).
I just today narrowed down my online problems to the Belkin adapter.

[Spudgun]

Originally Posted by crozier74

Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS

Current machine as standard comes without soundcard, and this is the only option (for an additional £64.63). Are there any problems I might encounter with this card?

That card is the canine's reproductive organs. Do a google for some reviews. For 60 quid I think it'll be worth it.

If I could justify it I'd get one myself.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by crozier74

I'd like to have 1024MB RAM instead of the current 512MB, as that's what last week's offer had, but I don't fancy the extra ~£120. It shouldn't be too much of a problem to have 512 should it?

I'd go for the Gig every time. I upgraded mine a week ago from 512 and the difference is incredible. Bought it for £60 on Ebay - two sticks of brand new Infineon (damn those Audis.....) 2700.

[luke]

Get a laytop their only a few hundred quid.

[Kidzer]

Those laptop things aren't bad either

But on a more serious note, yes laptops are good, but not really for simracing where you will have a wheel, and they tend to run rather hot aswel, which could cause stability issues if you are using loads of new high res cars and tracks in GPL and the like

[pirenzo]

Or, if your laptop is like mine, you will get seriously rubbish performance.

I get 15fps in GPL, GP4 is unplayable. My brother can beat me at Homeworld just by sending his entire fleet over and things slow down so much I can't react.

ATi Mobility is serious poor. Everything else about the thing means it ought to be good, 2.8GHz, 512Mb RAM, etc. But performance is worse than the 1.5GHz PC I use.

[SeaneyC]

If dell aren't giving it away (which they randomly seem to do from time to time) just go to www.crucial.com/uk to get some way cheaper and 100% guaranteed compatible and reliable ram. Whilst 512mb will be fine for making your PC run, the demands of heavy gaming and even fairly common applications mean that 1Gb of RAM is the very least i would put in a new system these days, especially given its fairly low cost.

Wires are a hassle, but it's funny how a mega wireless solution like a Cisco router, access point and wireless card costing mega hundreds will still only perform to the same standards as a £5 network card and a 50p a metre bit of wire. I spend ages deciding whether to go wireless or not in my previous flat, and we ended up just hiding wires, you could hardly notice them, and spent the rest on the PC! That said, wireless stuff is much cheap/reliable these days.

[Hepatic]

Not so sure on reliable, a lot of the guys racing on GTR seem to have random disconnection issues with their wireless routers. If you absolutely need to have wireless (ie the machine is located flipping miles away from the phone socket) then i would, otherwise hide the wires and save the cash for other bits of the machine.

[SeaneyC]

I actually missed out the word "more" in between much and cheap! Personally speaking, i have a really crap netgear AP (cost £20 for AP, USB dongle, and P&P) that works 100% flawlessly with my laptop, even sat at the bottom of the garden. I think i got lucky though, wireless definately seems to be one of the areas where you can pay silly money for reliability.