Ford ends its relationship - Page 5

Fogelhund · 5 Feb 2007, 18:52 (Ref:1834101)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Logic would assume the reason why champcar did not renew it's contract with Ford was for a good reason, not a bad one.

I don't believe Champcar had any choice in this matter. Ford simply walked away.

Quote:

Ford Motor Co. said it canceled its sponsorship of the Champ Car World Series, leaving the open-wheeled racing circuit without a title sponsor three months before its opening race in Phoenix.

The Champ Car sponsorship "no longer aligns with what Ford is trying to get accomplished in racing," Ford spokesman Andrew Punzal said. "Right now, we're just not getting what we need out of Champ Car."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...701260302/1014

norman-normal · 5 Feb 2007, 18:59 (Ref:1834108)

Trying something "promotional" is cosmetic, a move is of a more permanent nature like getting a tattoo. It would seem that you have never owned a business that was much more that a hobby.
One is easily reversible, the other is not

racinthestreets · 5 Feb 2007, 19:06 (Ref:1834113)

Don't discredit the new deals in LV and Phoenix - VISA is no small fish. It appears that things are not going according to the script, but the script can and is being modified as necessary. I believe a sponsor will be named and I believe the sponsor was in place before releasing Ford. Details remain. For the record again these are only my beliefs - but as this thread has seen before - kicking Ford "off the island" without a better plan would not be in the best interests of OWRS. We shall see!

Fogelhund · 5 Feb 2007, 19:08 (Ref:1834114)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racinthestreets

Don't discredit the new deals in LV and Phoenix - VISA is no small fish. It appears that things are not going according to the script, but the script can and is being modified as necessary. I believe a sponsor will be named and I believe the sponsor was in place before releasing Ford. Details remain. For the record again these are only my beliefs - but as this thread has seen before - kicking Ford "off the island" without a better plan would not be in the best interests of OWRS. We shall see!

Please see above. Ford wasn't released, or kicked "off the island". Ford left.

There are no other plans at the moment, and there currently is no replacement. If there were, it is customary to be announced the day after the "divorce" announcement, sometimes even on the same day.

norman-normal · 5 Feb 2007, 19:12 (Ref:1834118)

Time will tell, then one side will not be much in evidence. This is all speculation; I don't believe in clairvoyance, tho some seem to be claiming just that.

Leighton Irwin · 5 Feb 2007, 19:15 (Ref:1834124)

I feel 99 44/100ths of us want to see a merger. Seemingly the 66/100ths that don't include at least some of those who control matters. I have my own opinion on who but that does not matter. I just hope that they can get their respective acts together before we lose both series.

norman-normal · 5 Feb 2007, 19:26 (Ref:1834134)

At this point the only merger would be "shotgun wedding" Your percentage is way off the mark IMO

paul-collins · 5 Feb 2007, 19:29 (Ref:1834136)

Quote:

Originally Posted by norman-normal

Your percentage is way off the mark IMO

I'll say, it adds up to 100.1% !

norman-normal · 5 Feb 2007, 19:32 (Ref:1834137)

Why don't we take a poll here and find out?

racinthestreets · 5 Feb 2007, 20:45 (Ref:1834195)

Fogelhund, "kicked off the island" are not my words they came from representatives of Ford. See the post from Autoweek on page 6 of this thread I believe. True an announcement could and should have been made immediately. So yes speculation could be they do not have a sponsor lined up. I do not claim psychic powers, just a belief that KK knows what he is doing. He may have found himself in a world that he cannot fix, but he is getting my support (through race attendance) for making an effort. And at this time it does not take the ability to see the future to believe - the new cars are here and being tested! Let the season begin with or without a series sponsor and begin I firmly believe that it will. Viva Las Vegas!

Fogelhund · 5 Feb 2007, 21:36 (Ref:1834236)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racinthestreets

Fogelhund, "kicked off the island" are not my words they came from representatives of Ford. See the post from Autoweek on page 6 of this thread I believe.

Very selective quotations. Ford severed ties, after a number of changes were made, they didn't like.

They are.

1. CCWS killed the Hot Lap program
2. CCWS killed the Ford Pace Car program
3. CCWS went too international

Ford then quit.

If you wish to believe that CCWS pushed them out, then ok. We shall certainly know, in very short order, if something else is announced. To me, this sounds like Ford was fed up.

indycool · 5 Feb 2007, 21:45 (Ref:1834246)

If CC had something in play prior to Ford's "separation," there would have been no Ford decals on cars at Sebring and it would have been announced by now. Indeed, there are reports that CC knew since November that Ford wouldn't be back. Ford didn't announce then.....but after the decals showed up in pictures from Sebring, out it came.

norman-normal · 5 Feb 2007, 23:25 (Ref:1834314)

So were dying again? This CC cat must be running out of lives by now.

Dudley · 5 Feb 2007, 23:43 (Ref:1834332)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

I wonder how it is that Toyota's vast budget continues to go to waste, year after year. As Ford is going, Toyota supply the engines again.

Your logic would make sense if Ford had anything to do with champ car engines of 2005 and 2006 at all.

They didn't, their loss is money, but it's nothing whatsoever to do with engines.

Fogelhund · 6 Feb 2007, 00:02 (Ref:1834345)

Some of you are familiar with Jim Wilke. I don't often agree with him, but today's gem was an exception.

Quote:

I don't know if open wheel racing will ever return to the position of 15 and 25 years ago. I do know there is no room for two series in this country since it is painfully clear there may not even be a spot for one.

JohnSSC · 6 Feb 2007, 00:43 (Ref:1834362)

Quite agree with that quote, Fogelhund.

I know of no one here claiming clairvoyance, although one could say that either "side" is claiming to know things which cannot be known for sure as none of us I suspect are decision makers at Ford, CC or the IRL.

I will say this though, while not a method of attaining clairvoyance, our good friends Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Heriklitos, etc taught us that reasoned questioning and a logical examination of the facts known can lead one to a conclusion. The conclusions I have reached are based on what facts are known combined with my own observations and experience. Jim Wilke seems to have reached the same inescapable conclusion as well.

This is not about making a point through denigrating the individual holding the opposing viewpoint. It is not about taking a stance against one person or another and attempting to manipulate the data to reach the desired (on an emotional level) conclusion. It is simply looking at the cold, hard facts and following the line of logic to it's conclusion.

carsten66 · 6 Feb 2007, 01:59 (Ref:1834391)

When CCWS started, they also made a business plan, some parts work out, some didn't - until now - and some they have to sort out, but that's business and doing business also means to take a risk too and sometimes it's gambling... and with so many companies struggling at the moment, times have changed dramatically and you have to handle with managerial decisions you didn't have any effect on...

... so it's all about public relations: Start with the bad news, take some time and shortly before the season/business starts go public with the good news - and at least all is fine... (hope so...)

And – one thing is sitting at home and posting all the things CCWS should do or what's going wrong but all that's different from the view in the real seat...

Bob Riebe · 6 Feb 2007, 06:58 (Ref:1834486)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudley

Your logic would make sense if Ford had anything to do with champ car engines of 2005 and 2006 at all.

They didn't, their loss is money, but it's nothing whatsoever to do with engines.

Ford sold Cosworth the engineering firm, not any of the designs built and designed by FORD money.
The engines may be badged as Cosworth, but to put any other badge on the engine will be up to Ford and I am sure money.

The Chevordworth did not become that for free.

Now Cosworth can build a new engine not related to any Ford...
Bob

norman-normal · 6 Feb 2007, 15:53 (Ref:1834752)

Then how can Cosworth supply Champ Car, F1? Have you seen the sales contract?

paul-collins · 6 Feb 2007, 16:10 (Ref:1834769)

The Cosworth F1 motor derived from the motor they developed for Stewart/Jaguar, did it not? No doubt the sale of Cosworth by Ford included provisions for them to carry on with their supply works.

Notice that they've tried to move on by developing a new LMP1 engine, although sadly that seems to have gone nowhere...

Snrub · 6 Feb 2007, 16:19 (Ref:1834775)

^ I don't know the exact legal implications of those sorts of deals, but in this case Cosworth appears to have the rights for the engines. The same 2.65L V8s will be used the his or we'd have heard if it were otherwise. Good point Paul about Cosworth using F1 designs.

Bob Riebe · 6 Feb 2007, 19:53 (Ref:1834905)

Quote:

Originally Posted by norman-normal

Then how can Cosworth supply Champ Car, F1? Have you seen the sales contract?

Use your head, Ford did not spend X millions to have to pay royalties for something it developed, should it want to use it in the future.

Back in the seventie, Ford told Cosworth to get its name off of the Indy car engines or suffer in court (due to political concerns for Ford).
When Ford got back into racing, it told Cosworth to put its name back, and it did.

Ford can allow Cosworth to use any engines developed with its money as it chooses, when it chooses.
If Cosworth developes an engine totally unrelated to the Ford engines, then Cosworth can do with it as it chooses.

An engineering firm, is not the same as patented engineering ideas, why do you think patent laws exist.

icemachine · 6 Feb 2007, 20:28 (Ref:1834924)

Ford will not be able to control anything should Cosworth get money to slap a different badge on its engines. OWRS owns the XFE engine, design and all. They decide who's name goes on that engine.

mountainstar · 7 Feb 2007, 00:43 (Ref:1835053)

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemachine

Ford will not be able to control anything should Cosworth get money to slap a different badge on its engines. OWRS owns the XFE engine, design and all. They decide who's name goes on that engine.

Actually Cosworth owns the engine design and all. That was made clear when the cosworth purchase was made.

icemachine · 7 Feb 2007, 01:22 (Ref:1835067)

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/12971/

"It comes as no surprise that Ford has decided to take these actions,” said Eidswick. “It is important to note the Champ Car World Series owns the Cosworth XFE engines our teams currently use, and that this decision will not impact Champ Car’s ability to compete now or in the future.

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